Smaay ! V6 vs. Beams, Let's do this ! Options

[Batman722]

OK, there has been debates left and right about this.
You're a big believer in you're V6, and you should be.
I'm a believer in both.

First, I have respect for a good V6. The 1mz-fe isn't the best IMO, a 3mz-fe is better IMO.
A power of a 1mz-fe comparable to a Beams all day. The power delivery and torque curve is very different, yes but you can never compare a GE head to an FE head.
You have a 1mz/3mz hybrid, that's like saying a hybrid 5s-gte is better than a stock 3sgte.

I have a Beams in my Celica. Bone stock (except an exhaust) with the LSD tranny it came with.
The Beams is great down low and booms after 4K rpms and pulls hard until red line, the advantage of VVT-I with a GE head.

Ease of swap ? Beams in a heartbeat.
The Beams is close to plug and play, you can use a s54 or use the s54 w/lsd with the motor with no custom mounts, no custom anything really.
Reliability ? Beams. Any V6 (1m or 3m) should be rebuilt. You'd be a fool not to, we all know why.
Parts availability ? Both. Beams parts are available in the US. There is virtually no part I couldn't get from another toyota that's used on a Beams.
Power ? 1mz-fe or Beams ? IMO Beams. I have driven the 1m in a Camry, I'm sure it would be more fun in a Celica, until someone proves me wrong the Beams is my answer.
3mz-fe ? all day over a Beams, but cost is much higher.
Cost of swap (1mz-fe) ? Beams is less a landslide. Why ? Well...a 1m motor is cheaper but it gonna need a rebuild - no doubt (always do a compression test first). Most people can't rebuild an engine ($), you should use an e153 with hybrid axles, a custom mount (don't you sell one for around $200 ?), the wiring - for an average person, it's gonna cost them to have someone do it, how about the power steering pump, AC, throttle cable, ect. The Beams is a Celica motor going into a Celica. The only difficult part is wiring, which is piss easy for an average person. There is no custom anything, except maybe a tach adapter or use a stock Beams cluster and no adapter needed.

Overall I would (and did) put a Beams in a Celica over a 1mz-fe.
A 3mz-fe would be better but I don't like the drive by wire set up, problems will arise.
A 2gr would be overkill and would kill our 15-19 year old cars.

[RabidTRD]

I'm still going to run a BEAMS when I can afford it. I've already got the suspension where I want it, exhaust is good. I have a Tanabe Medallion G-Power long-tube header that's designed for the 3S-GE sitting on my shelf next to me, waiting to be installed, but I might just wait until I get the BEAMS.

I need a swap personally that is simply plug and play. The BEAMS is that. It's more cost effective, and time efficient. I have only one vehicle. I would take a week off of work to install it, figure out the bugs and get it ready to be run long term. I don't have many months and a second car to use while figuring out all the BS I'd have to deal with in the 1MZ.

In my mind, the BEAMS is far superior, that's why I'm really curious to see how this match up goes.

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

[Box]

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.

This post has been edited by Box: Sep 25, 2013 - 8:11 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.

yea okay!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMVGz4eZgZA

[Box]

...and Box, your note about the "exhaust tone and how the V6 sounds better," you haven't heard a properly done exhaust on a Toyota engine then. Mine is never raspy, never ricey, just deep and rough. Dustin has a perfect sounding exhaust on his BEAMS. The Yamaha head sings a beautiful tone through it.

The only 4 cylinder that I've heard that sounds good is the cross-plane I4 used in the Yamaha sport bikes. I've heard a variety of exhausts for a variety of I4's and there's always rasp and harshness, it's just the degree. That includes the 7A, 5S, 3S(GTE), 22R, and so on and so forth. It's the reason I absolutely refused to touch mine, because I knew no matter how I did it it'd sound like trash. Even most 6 cylinders rasp out over 3,000 RPM or so. It's all due to the angle and firing interval. Some people like 4 cylinder exhaust, to me they're not audibly pleasing. 6's are hit and miss. 8, 10, 12, and 16 is the way to go.

yea okay!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMVGz4eZgZA

Thanks for proving my point.