'95 Gt Conv. 3SGTE Swap, Consolidated Info. I still have qstns. Options

[Falstaff]

I'll be upfront and say I'm no mechanic--I'm an architect. It basically means I like expensive things I can't afford and am easily confused. I'm looking to swap out my '95 Celica GT stock engine with the venerable 3SGTE I've read about over the last couple of days. My priorities are a) significant increase in performance, b) still street legal (in Massachusetts) c) the best value in terms of dollars spent to performance returned d) reliability e) repairable in reasonable time frame.

Based on my review of the posts, this is what I have distilled as the most useful/relevant information.

The "best" engine would seem to be a 3rd generation 3SGTE, though this seems to be a subject of some debate; there seems to be a case for a second gen as well. From postings elsewhere on this and other sites:

"Due to request, below are the horsepower figures for some of the 3S-GTE engines:
1st Generation - 190 HP(USDM '87-'89 Celica All-Trac), 187 HP(JDM '87-'89 Celica GT-Four)
2nd Generation - 200 HP(USDM '90-'93 Celica All-Trac, USDM '91-'95 MR2 Turbo), 221 HP(JDM '90-'93 Celica GT-Four, JDM '89-'94 MR2 Turbo), 231 HP(JDM '90-'93 Celica GT-Four RC)
3rd Generation - 239 HP(Non-JDM '94-'99 Celica GT-Four), 241 HP(JDM '95-'99 MR2 Turbo), 251 HP(JDM '94-'98 Celica GT-Four)
4th Generation - 254 HP(JDM ST246 Toyota Caldina GT-Four)"

"get a 3rd gen 3sgte from a 1994 up mr2 jdm the one with the lsd tranny.(if you get the celica 3sgte you would be wasting too much money on the intercooler and tranny which you would not be able to use and if you dont get the ecu and harness with the motor, the mr2 ecu and harness is more available in the states than the alltrac.but ideally you should be going stand alone if you are about to undertake such a project)if you dont have someone who can do custom work esp.mig or tig welding,access to a machine shop forget it! getting the set up is kinda easy but its to put it all together thats where the problem starts."HYBRID":resulting from the combination of two or more mechanically dissimilar origins!"

Second it seems that it is wise to buy the front end clip for parts:

"The advantage to buying a front clip is that you will get all of the vital components to make the engine run. You will get the maf unit, resistor packs, ignitor, ignition coils, intercooler, turbo pressure sensor, uncut wiring harness, and throttle cable. Good luck finding these if you buy the motor alone. I like the way Jarco runs their business. www.jarcoinc.com Almost every 2nd gen 3sgte clip they have is $2200 plus about $500 shipping. "

Third you will need some additonal parts/modifications:

Among the biggest headaches appears to be the wiring harness.

"THE WIRING HARNESS--
This isn't my department!!! Send both harness to Michael Coury of Top
Shelf Racing. He has experience with this. I believe he's done three
or four so far. www.topshelfracing.com
You have to send out the entire harness, the 4 interior plugs from your
old harness, and the plug from your old fuse box. These 5 plugs will
be spliced into the 3sgte harness.
The only advice that I can offer here is that your harness needs to be
extended 33". Don't take the wiring from the old harness. Go buy some
wire so that you have the harness for the old motor. It's easier to
sell this way. Cut one wire at a time. You will lengthen the wires
somewhere near where the harness enters the firewall. Buy some heat
shrink tubing to cover the open wire. Remove plastic coating using
wire cutters on the wire connected to the harness and from on both ends
of the wire cut 33" long. Twist the two together. Place two pieces of
heat shrink tubing(2") over the open end. Twist both ends together and
solder the wires with electrical solder. Use solder flux and the
solder will melt right in between the wire. The solder should have a
shine to it. Place heat shrink tubing over exposed wire and heat with
a small torch or blow dryer may work."

"THINGS TO CONSIDER
1)Depending on how much you break down the engine you most likely will
need gaskets and gasket seal. Throttle body gaskets(dealership),
intake manifold gasket set(advanced auto).

2)Make sure that when you order your tranny(if you have to)that you
have a throw out bearing and clutch fork.

3)With a new clutch disk and pressure plate you need to get your
flywheel turned. It's a good idea to have brake cleaner to clean the
flywheel, and clutch disk when you put the tranny on.
You'll always need the Pressure Plate that matches up to the engine
block(3sgte Pressure plate), and a GT Clutch disc, GT throw out bearing
and GT clutch fork that match the Tranny.

4)Get all of the new parts you'll need ahead of time. In my case, I
waited on a piece that goes under the passenger side motor mount for 7
weeks.

5)You will use three 4 motor mounts from the 1994-1999 gt. If you have
an ST, make sure you have all the pieces ordered from the dealership for
that mount ahead of time. Or I suggest getting the from a junkyard.
Those little pieces are hard to come by they may be on back order.
There are 3 pieces and a bolt to the passenger side motor mount."

RE the Clutch:

"... use a 5sfe disc with the 3sgte PP and FW"


My intention is to find a 3rd generation 3SGTE and have it shipped to my favorite mechanic, Doug, at Hometown Auto in New Hampshire, a brilliant mechanic and a great guy. With any luck he'll make sense of all the parts and pieces and put my car back together for me. I'm hoping to keep the project cost below $4K.

What I expect to buy:
1) Engine and front end clip for parts including:
-the engine
-uncut wiring harness
-ecu
-ignitor
-ignition coil
-resistor pack
-maf unit
-top mount intercooler
2) 3sgte Pressure Plate
3) Custom wiring harness
4) Walbro 255lph supra NA fuel pump for 6th gen
5) gaskets and gasket seal.
6) Throttle body gaskets
7) Intake manifold gasket set
8) Custom exhaust work to extend pipes and make street legal.

What am I missing?

[qatar11]

To answer some Q's
1) you are not going to believe how fast the car is with a 2nd gen motor, let alone a 3rd gen motor... yes there is a 30 HP swing, but there is no torque increase, which is what you will feel the most anyway... I'm currently pricing motor parts for a 3rd gen 3SGTE - and they are pricey.

2) I agree

4) Depending on your laws you may need to pass a visual inspection (i.e they will look for EGR equipment on the motor) having said that, it is rumored that these motors will pass emissions without EGR equipment on them.

As far as the wiring goes, the process has been optimized nowadays.. we no longer lengthen the whole harness by 30 - odd inches, we take apart the harness and reorganize it so it will fit just like a stock harnness and the amount of lenghtening has been reduced, however it is more work for me (oh well :-) )