Need expert advice on finishing 94 Celica brake job Options

[Langing]

JULY 22 UPDATE: "BRAKE JOB" FINISHED. (See comment of today's date.)

JUNE 2 UPDATE: REAR BRAKES FINE NOW; FRONT RIGHT STEERING KNUCKLE DEFINITELY BENT (AT THE EARS); SEEKING ANOTHER KNUCKLE.

MAY 28 UPDATE: NOW WHAT? THE REAR WHEELS ARE LOCKED BUT THE PB IS DOWN! WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?

MAY 27 UPDATE: SATISFIED THAT THE REAR DRUM BRAKES ARE NOW FUNCTIONING PROPERLY; PROBLEM DEFINED DOES NOT AFFECT THE BRAKE AT ITS PROPER ADJUSTMENT OPERATING POINT; MOVING ON TO NEXT TASK

MAY 23 UPDATE: REAR DRUM BRAKE PROBLEM DEFINITION IS NARROWING SUCH THAT AN EXPERT MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP ME (SEE LAST POSTS)


This is my first experience doing such an extensive job on my Celica, and I have the Green Books (FSM). Everything looks beautiful (to me), have photos.

I have finished replacing/rebuilding all parts of the brake system -- meaning at all four wheels (including new hardware, hoses, wheel bearings, etc) and am ready to put her back on the road, but . . . with all new shoes, pads, drums and rotors, how can I know they are working properly? I’ve already discovered a couple of assembly mistakes I had to correct, which tells me there may be something else I am missing?

First known issue: because I don’t have a vernier caliper longer than 6”, an AMPRO T71558 Brake Drum Resetting Gauge will arrive on Friday so I can set the ‘clearance’ between the shoes and drums at the rear. Beyond that I have some confusion on how the parking brake works to maintain the proper clearance, given the initial setting of the rear brakes. I want to be totally clear about what I am doing so I am not making a stupid but costly mistake.

For example: the manual says to verify that the parking brake levers (on the rear shoes) turns the adjusters (they do) and then to minimize the length of the adjusters (I did), then install the drums and pull the parking brake lever (in the cabin) all the way up until a clicking sound can no longer be heard (did that as well). The very next procedure is to check shoe clearance, but the last step left the parking brake on? And I was thinking that engaging the parking brake and then releasing it was the cause of the adjuster turning, and that it turns only by just one gear tooth distance. All that said, the manual has me just setting the initial clearance, popping on the drums and tires I'm good to go. Is that really all I need to do to make sure the rear breaks are functioning properly?

Second issue: with new rotors and pads on the front disc brakes, there isn’t a lot of free space in the caliper bracket and there is a scraping sound when I turn the rotors by hand, so there is obvious interference. I don’t know whether the slide pins are not working well, since the calipers aren’t sliding in and out when hand manipulated, or are they just supposed to rub together until enough friction material wears off that they can begin to have enough space to work once the car is on the road? How do I check them BEFORE I put her on the road, so I can be certain they are working properly?

My inexperience has me ready to go, but dead in the water.

This post has been edited by Langing: Jul 22, 2014 - 11:06 AM

[mkernz22]

When you bleed the brakes, you're suppose to bleed the side that is farthest from the master cylinder then work your way to the closest.

It goes:
Passenger rear
Driver Rear
Passenger Front
Driver Front

[Langing]

When you bleed the brakes, you're suppose to bleed the side that is farthest from the master cylinder then work your way to the closest.

It goes:
Passenger rear
Driver Rear
Passenger Front
Driver Front

Yes, I agree with you. Sorry I gave the impression that I didn't know. You see, this little job has turned into quite a project. I have been at this for over a month now, and you don't know that I had already been bleeding the brakes, starting well before the incident I reported, with the intention of pushing as much brake fluid through my system as it takes to eliminate as much residue I possibly could of the old fluid. The brake fluid had not been completely changed out, probably since the car was first purchased, 20 years ago. If I ever get this project finished, I hope to go back and rebuild or replace the master cylinder also, so I will know there can be no (easy to eliminate) source of residue and debris left in my refurbished brake system.

Due to the nature of my project, I've done a significant amount of research about bleeding brakes, including Haynes manual, Toyota FSM, YouTube videos, and other sources. Almost always your statement that you should work your way from the wheel farthest from the MC and end up on the wheel that is the closest to the MC is what is recommended. But notice that, according to this general advice, the actual sequence of wheels that should get bled can, and does, vary by vehicle, depending on how the brake lines are actually run from the MC to the various wheels. So, one needs some knowledge about where the brake lines actually go, once leaving the MC, in order to know the correct bleeding sequence. Many times this can be found in a common repair manual for the vehicle. But that's not the only thing to consider when thinking about your rule. For example, the rule seems about as logically sound as one could ever imagine, but ask yourself the question "Where did the rule come from?"

For instance, for my 1994 Celica, my Haynes manual suggests the sequence be RR LF LR RF, which isn't the sequence you set down. My Green Book (Toyota FSM) only says "HINT: Start bleeding from the caliper the farthest away from the master cylinder and finish at the closest" another case of the rule. Take a look at some sequences:

My Celica: RR LF LR RF
Your sequence: RR LR RF LF
Man in video: LF RF RR LR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfTmlOZbXgs
EricTheCarGuy: LF RR RF LR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5O_pbC8R2E

There are people who just do not subscribe to the rule. The clearest example I know of is Eric the Car Guy, who basically advocates doing the opposite, especially when replacing brake fluid. I believe he is concerned not to take the dirtiest fluid down the longest lines first. Thus, he goes from the closest to the farthest. I've included his YouTube video in the list. He believes that going by the rule, the normal sequence for most cars is RR LF LR RF, again NOT your sequence, however it is the sequence specified in the Haynes manual for my Celica. So, there you have all three issues, a standard rule, a reverse standard rule, and length of individual line dependent bleeding sequence.

My intention was simply to document and make you aware of some "discrepancies" that came to my attention during my work on this project.

And while writing this, it struck me that I now must go down to the garage and trace all of the Celica's brake lines, to see that the Haynes advice is credible.

And before I leave, I want to thank you for commenting. As far as I can tell, you are correct.