Need expert advice on finishing 94 Celica brake job Options

[Langing]

JULY 22 UPDATE: "BRAKE JOB" FINISHED. (See comment of today's date.)

JUNE 2 UPDATE: REAR BRAKES FINE NOW; FRONT RIGHT STEERING KNUCKLE DEFINITELY BENT (AT THE EARS); SEEKING ANOTHER KNUCKLE.

MAY 28 UPDATE: NOW WHAT? THE REAR WHEELS ARE LOCKED BUT THE PB IS DOWN! WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?

MAY 27 UPDATE: SATISFIED THAT THE REAR DRUM BRAKES ARE NOW FUNCTIONING PROPERLY; PROBLEM DEFINED DOES NOT AFFECT THE BRAKE AT ITS PROPER ADJUSTMENT OPERATING POINT; MOVING ON TO NEXT TASK

MAY 23 UPDATE: REAR DRUM BRAKE PROBLEM DEFINITION IS NARROWING SUCH THAT AN EXPERT MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP ME (SEE LAST POSTS)


This is my first experience doing such an extensive job on my Celica, and I have the Green Books (FSM). Everything looks beautiful (to me), have photos.

I have finished replacing/rebuilding all parts of the brake system -- meaning at all four wheels (including new hardware, hoses, wheel bearings, etc) and am ready to put her back on the road, but . . . with all new shoes, pads, drums and rotors, how can I know they are working properly? I’ve already discovered a couple of assembly mistakes I had to correct, which tells me there may be something else I am missing?

First known issue: because I don’t have a vernier caliper longer than 6”, an AMPRO T71558 Brake Drum Resetting Gauge will arrive on Friday so I can set the ‘clearance’ between the shoes and drums at the rear. Beyond that I have some confusion on how the parking brake works to maintain the proper clearance, given the initial setting of the rear brakes. I want to be totally clear about what I am doing so I am not making a stupid but costly mistake.

For example: the manual says to verify that the parking brake levers (on the rear shoes) turns the adjusters (they do) and then to minimize the length of the adjusters (I did), then install the drums and pull the parking brake lever (in the cabin) all the way up until a clicking sound can no longer be heard (did that as well). The very next procedure is to check shoe clearance, but the last step left the parking brake on? And I was thinking that engaging the parking brake and then releasing it was the cause of the adjuster turning, and that it turns only by just one gear tooth distance. All that said, the manual has me just setting the initial clearance, popping on the drums and tires I'm good to go. Is that really all I need to do to make sure the rear breaks are functioning properly?

Second issue: with new rotors and pads on the front disc brakes, there isn’t a lot of free space in the caliper bracket and there is a scraping sound when I turn the rotors by hand, so there is obvious interference. I don’t know whether the slide pins are not working well, since the calipers aren’t sliding in and out when hand manipulated, or are they just supposed to rub together until enough friction material wears off that they can begin to have enough space to work once the car is on the road? How do I check them BEFORE I put her on the road, so I can be certain they are working properly?

My inexperience has me ready to go, but dead in the water.

This post has been edited by Langing: Jul 22, 2014 - 11:06 AM

[Langing]

REAR BRAKE INSTALLATION procedure

In the FSM has 14 steps.



STEP 9: CHECK OPERATION OF AUTOMATIC ADJUSTING MECHANISM

(a) Move the parking brake lever of the rear shoe back and forth to check that the adjuster turns.

[DID THAT, THEY BOTH TURN]

If the adjuster does not turn, check for incorrect installation of the rear brake.

(b) Adjust the adjuster length to the shortest possible amount.

[DID THAT BY TURNING BOTH STAR WHEELS DOWNWARD TILL THEY STOPPED TURNING, THEN BACKED THEM OFF JUST A SMIDGE SO THEY DIDN'T GET JAMMED]

(c ) Install the drum

[DID THAT]

(d) Pull the parking brake lever all the way up until a clicking sound can no longer be heard.

[DID THAT, 6 CLICKS]



STEP 10 CHECK CLEARANCE BETWEEN BRAKE SHOES AND DRUM


(a) Remove the brake drum

How can the drum come off when the PB is engaged fully? Is this a problem with the instructions? Or did they actually want the installer to remove the drum despite the fact that the PB was fully engaged? I've tried it with the PB fully engaged. In fact, I have tried it several times from scratch. Most of the time, I was able to remove the drum using my hands or bolts screwed in from the front would easily pop them off, but a couple of times one drum was stuck on and removing it using bolts might have broken the hold down springs, so I resorted to releasing the PB.

Well. . . think about it, their goal is to set the shoe/drum 'clearance' to 0.024". . . I suppose their way of doing that is by minimizing the adjuster length and pulling the PB full up. If that is how the rear drum brakes are initially set to the proper clearance (0.024 ") then pulling the drums off should be no problem for the installer because there would be a 0.024" clearance between the shoes and the drum, right? That might be correct for the everyday brake job, where some installer is changing out both pair of brake shoes and nothing more, but. . .

Let me remind you that my project was to install ALL new or newly self-rebuilt brake system parts on all four wheels, so the NEW shoes should be at their thickest (OD) and the NEW drums at their thinnest (ID). Then, the shoe/drum 'clearance' (the difference between the THICKEST OD and the THINNEST ID) should be dead on 0.024" IF THERE WAS NO ERROR IN EITHER THE SHOE OR DRUM DIMENSIONS! What's the chance of that?

Let me finish the sub-steps of step 10:

(b) Measure the brake drum inside diameter (ID) and diameter of the brake shoes OD. Check that the difference between the diameters is the correct shoe clearance,

Shoe clearance:

0.6 mm (0.024")

(they show the measure being taken using a vernier caliper).

If incorrect, check the parking brake system.

RIGHT: where is that procedure in the FSM?

I'm using the AmPro Drum Brake Resetting Tool I ordered on-line (less than $20) that is a template with a built-in 0.024" clearance, rather than a vernier caliper, because I cannot afford a 12" vernier caliper:



Using this tool makes the job simple. All you have to do is stick the inside diameter measurement side into the inside of the drum and make sure it is the greatest expansion of the tool, then lock it in place. Turn it over and use the OD measure side to see if the shoe OD is exactly that. Done! Well. . . done, if your shoes are really close to that measure, but no larger.


STEP 11: INSTALL BRAKE DRUM

STEP 12: INSTALL REAR WHEEL

STEP 13: FILL BRAKE RESERVOIR WITH BRAKE FLUID AND BLEED THE BRAKE SYSTEM

STEP 14: CHECK FOR LEAKS



All that said, I am still getting inconsistent results. I intend on doing a little more experimenting, but mostly suspect that the problem is due to my putting all new components on and I have a dimensional tolerance problem. When I get the right front caliper back to working I will try the experiment of using the normal brake pedal to see if there is still a difference since the two systems are independent, as recommended by my good friend above.

One encouraging result: the last time I went through all this from scratch, when I had to release the PB to get the right side drum off, I measured both ODs and found them very close to being correct, except the right side OD was just a little too large. But, get this, I mounted both wheels and spun them by hand. The right side would revolve 13 times before stopping, and the left side revolved 15 times! Call me stupid, but. . . I think that is really encouraging.

This post has been edited by Langing: May 22, 2014 - 11:37 AM