Radiator Debacle, TERRIBLE customer service, PSA Options

[Fastbird]

I want to share a story with you guys. I know I don't post a whole lot anymore, but I'm still around. My Celica's been good to me, but nothing is infallable, and sometimes things break. This happened in November of 2011.

In November 2011, my stock radiator developed a crack originating at the fill neck. Unrepairable. No biggie, I searched around, knowing most aftermarket radiators are made in the same factory overseas, I looked for a good deal. Enter ebay, a vendor by the name of Aeon Imports selling an "American Eagle" radiator, the company which is a sub-company of Champion Radiator/Cooling. But reason for purchasing was price, and a lifetime warranty. Radiator came in, me being a professional mechanic at the time, I did the installation. There was no reason for a flush as the coolant that came out was absolutely clean and even reusable. Radiator was a great fit, back to factory type operation in no time. I used a 50/50 mix of water and actual green coolant, not the "mix with everything" stuff. Done and done.

Now fast forward to April of 2014, with about 3-4K miles having been put on the car since the radiator went in. The FIRST day I took the Celica out after a November to April winter hibernation, while driving home from work, the upper tank split......no more like ruptured......on the way home. I've circled the crack in the following picture:



I mean this thing just flat out failed.

So I contact the company, get the relevant information for submitting for a warranty claim. They wanted photo's of the radiator, and the car, copies of my registration (WHY?), and receipts for coolant and water used to fill the radiator. Pictures of the radiator I've shown below, but who keeps expendable fluid receipts for over 3 years, really?

Radiator in car:


Front of Radiator:


Back of radiator:


Now, I'm going to paste all my email exchanges with the ebay vendor Aeon Imports in their entirety, nothing redacted at all save for my personal information (phone number, address, etc). I want you all to see the absolutely silly excuses and dodges the vendor and the main supplier American Eagle/Champion went to in order to not allow my warranty claim.

I purchased a radiator from your ebay store on November 4, 2011. The ebay item number was 190588525265 and it was a Premium New radiator for a 94-99 Toyota Celica 2.2L and had a lifetime warranty. The payment total was $70.06 and I paid via paypal from my account under "Fastbird Performance."

The radiator failed on me this morning driving home from work. The upper tank split in two places just to the passenger side of the filler neck (amazingly the same place that the factory radiator decided to crack also). I need to get a replacement ASAP as gas is expensive and I can't be affording to drive my other vehicles around right now.

Please email me back or call me at 609-792-5995. I have moved since the purchase in 2011. The address used when I purchased was XXXX. I now live at XXXX in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Thanks for your time.

Sean XXXX
XXX-XXX-XXXX

Hi Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for contacting us. We are sorry to hear that you have experienced an issue with your radiator. If you would like to submit a warranty claim for your radiator, please complete the attached form and return it to us. Due to the time sensitivity of this matter, we would recommend to email the information back for fastest processing. Once the form is completed and returned, we will submit your claim with the manufacturer. Once the claim is processed we will contact you with the resolution information. Thank you for the address information, we will make that correction for your replacement. If you have any questions or if you need any assistance, please feel free to contact us. Thank you!

- Aeon Imports
(888)808-AEON
(888)808-2366

Monday - Friday
10am-6pm PST

To Whom It May Concern:

Attached you'll find the Radiator Warranty Sheet and all requested information including several pictures of the radiator. Two things. One, I do NOT have receipts for the coolant used when the radiator was installed, as I don't keep receipts for consumable fluids like that. Two, there is NO sticker on the radiator, nor was there ever a sticker on it. I would not have removed something like that. Please bear in mind that this was purchased in November of 2011 so I'd expect processes to have changed between then and now. Also, concerning the failure, please consider that the car has only seen 3000, MAYBE up to 4000 miles since installation. You can see the pictures of the car and it becomes immediately apparent that this car is a garage queen and not some hooptie with some hack job working on it. I'm an ASE Technician and have been working on cars in excess of a decade so I fully know what I'm doing.

If you need further information please let me know.

My new address is:

*redacted address*

Thanks for your consideration with this matter.

Sincerely,

Sean XXXX

Hello Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for sending the form and all the requested information. If
you can, a couple things:

1: Tell us what brand coolant was used or send a picture of the
bottle [if you still have it]

2: Take a picture of the side numbers without a flash so we can see
all the numbers and letters

3: Provide a copy of your ASE certification

These will help get the claim approved faster once we submit the
information to the manufacturer. Thank you.

Attached to this email you'll find the best picture I could muster of the numbering on the side of the radiator. It reads D77 AE1525 20110524 the best I can make it out. The other picture is from my ASE testing score sheet. I passed Automobile Parts, Engine Performance, and Engine Repair. I never bothered with getting certificates to display because I never felt the need. As for the coolant, I don't remember what brand, and I certainly don't have the bottle still. I will say with certainty that I used regular GREEN coolant, NOT the "mix with anything" coolant. Again, regular old green coolant, 50/50 mix with water.

Thanks,

Sean XXXX

Hello Mr. XXXX,

Thank you very much for providing the requested information. We have
forwarded all the information to the manufacturer for approval. They
will contact us within 2 business days with an update. If approved, a
replacement will be shipped out. Please feel free to contact us if
you have any further questions. Thank you.

The prior email I had received on April 28th. This following one was sent on May 6th.

Any word on this? I need to get this car on the road again.

Thanks,

Sean XXXX

Thank you for contacting us. We are sorry to hear that you have not
received your response. It seems we sent it to the incorrect email
address and we have resent the information to the correct email. We
sincerely apologize for the inconvenience. If you have not received
the warranty resolution information, please contact us. Thank you!

Now, here is where it goes down hill and gets downright comical at times with their one excuse after another as I rebuff their weak attempts at dodging the claim. I am bolding the more amusing stuff said.......

Thank you for your warranty submission. We are sorry to hear that you
have experienced an issue with your radiator. We have submitted your
claim with the manufacturer and they have provided the following
response.

"Our warranty is valid only when there has been a premature failure of
the part itself or its components due to a manufacturing process for
the first purchaser at retail. This warranty applies only to those
products which have been installed in accordance with accepted
industry standards by a recognized professional service dealer.

This claim is not in compliance with the warranty conditions and the
warranty is voided. There is a stress crack on the tank of the
radiator. A stress crack is caused by excessive pressure. The part is
to be installed to industry standards. The radiator cap should hold a
minimum of 13.5 psi, where your cap only shows 13 lbs. Please ensure
you get a stronger radiator cap to ensure this matter does not
persist. A receipt of coolant is a condition of the warranty and
that was not met. The system was also not flushed prior to
installation. The pictures show dirt and debris around the part which
could also attribute to pressure build up. We also see some possible
damage on the a/c condenser which would also impact radiator. Please
advise the customer to also check their water pump, temperature
sensor, and gasket to see if there may be any defects or leaks for
they also may have attributed to the pressure build up."

We apologize for the outcome of the case for we understand this is
probably not the response you were looking for. We would strongly
recommend to review some of the suggestions that the manufacturer
recommended. We have brought this case up to our manager and he has
approved a discount for you order if you wish to purchase a
replacement. If you have any questions or if you need any assistance,
please feel free to contact us. Thank you!

At this point I IMMEDIATELY made a phone call because this was ridiculous. It is NOT an industry mandate to flush a cooling system when installing a new radiator. Who in the heck keeps coolant receipts for 3+ years. Stress crack? More like failure crack, plain and simple. Dirt and debris? Uh yeah, there was coolant spewing everywhere under a closed hood, dirt is bound to get moved around (the coolant I drained when I did remove the radiator looked brand new, no debris or anything in it). I was asked to send a follow up email and the string continues.

Priscilla,

Having just spoken with you, here are my issues with the manufacturer rebuttal to my warranty claim.

A stress crack is a sign of premature failure when it's on a part that only got 4000 miles or less on it. Your manufacturers claim that a 13lb radiator cap is the issue is ridiculous. They cited that a 13.5 lb cap should have been used instead. Simple math tells me that a 13.5lb cap would create MORE pressure in the cooling system. Furthermore, my radiator cap is an OEM pressure replacement, to which my TOYOTA FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL states 13 lbs is the appropriate pressure. Has the person that wrote that response ever done math or worked on a car? How does a 13lb cap make too much pressure but a 13.5lb cap won't? That argument makes zero sense and is nothing but a ploy to get out of covering the warranty claim.

When someone such as an ASE certified mechanic like myself has an issue, they usually do their own work. I have proven my certifications. Your manufacturers claim against not having been installed by a certified service dealer within industry standards is null and void. As is their rebuttal against not having the system flushed. It was not necessary based off of my professional experience.

Also, as to their claim of sediment and deposits in the system.....someone there needs to think their words through. The radiator tank cracked while the car was being driven. A system under pressure that fails like that invariably sprays it's contents everywhere, collecting any underhood dust and dirt along the way. I can provide a picture of very clean coolant straight from their because it's still in the collection pan right now.

Damage to the air conditioning condenser? It wasn't even pictured. A failed argument while trying to escape a valid warranty claim. As is the argument that a coolant receipt is required. Coolant is coolant, as long as its not dex cool intermixed, it's fine. No one keeps consumable fluid receipts anyway. Again, a weak argument to get out of a claim.

There are no gasket issues or cooling system issues in this car. Look at the car. It's not some sub standard maintained vehicle. This is an impeccably maintained vehicle which is not driven too often and highly cared for. Again, I'm a professional and know how to maintain my vehicles and what is and isn't a premature failure. This was a failed cheap plastic end tank on the radiator plain and simple. If a problem arises, I fix it.

The manufacturer needs to own up and admit this was very simply a failed component. There's no other explanation for it. Trying to use every excuse in the book to get out of covering it does nothing but promote a very substandard view of their customer service.

I don't want your manufacturers discount. The only way I'm putting their radiator back in the car again is a warranty replacement. Otherwise, I'll but higher quality elsewhere and be speaking with the BBB as well as to the poor product quality and support from the manufacturer. I do not take lightly to being scammed out of a valid warranty claim.

Sincerely,

Sean XXXX

I did make a mistake above. The A/C condenser was pictured, in the shot of the radiator installed in the car. But seriously, that's a VERY weak argument.

Hi Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for contacting us. This is Priscilla from Aeon Imports and I
have received and forwarded your claim to the manufacturer. My manager
was also updated about this claim so I also asked him to help me speak
with the manufacturer about your situation in hopes we may get this
resolved correctly as soon as possible. The main person in charge of
claims left for the day, but I sent him your email and I will be
following up with him tomorrow in hopes we can get this resolved
shortly. If there is anything else you would like to add or if you
need any assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

More bolded stuff for your amusement.

Hi Mr. XXXX,

Thank you for your patience and understanding. I spoke with the
manufacturer today and this was what as advised to me. The
manufacturer advised to me that cracks are typically caused when the
plastic is flexed because of extreme hot and cold temperature. These
radiators are pressure tested prior to distribution but the radiator
is made of ABS plastic. It's ballistic plastic that can handle
pressure. The radiator cap should be able to hold 13.5-17.5 psi this
information is found under the Radiator Cap in the 1999 Toyota Celica
Service Manual, if you have a cap that can only hold 13 psi, that
could be the reason the radiator tank cracked. They advised that the
radiator cap pictured is not OEM, the OEM cap is not made in Korea.
The picture of the condenser was provided in the file radiator in
car.jpeg. They also advised it shows as Not Passed for Automobile
Service Consultant which means are you not a licensed professional
service dealer. Part of the warranty policy states, "This warranty
applies only to those products which have been installed in accordance
with accepted industry standards by a recognized professional service
dealer. For example, radiators and condensers must have the proper
coolant and distilled water mixture installed in the part, failure to
prove so will void the warranty." Because these items were not
fulfilled the warranty is voided.

In the end they explained to me that warranty is a legal situation and
they have guidelines that they need to follow. When the guidelines are
not met, then they cannot honor the warranty. I hope that they have
explained the situation a little better for you, although it's not
what you want to hear. I tried doing my own research to see if there
was anything that I could do and I had my manager talk to them as
well. I'm sincerely sorry for the inconvenience.

Ok, so because I didn't pass "Automobile Service Consultant" ASE test I'm not a licensed and certified technician? WTF??? But their argument that a supposedly lower pressure cap than what they recommend is just hysterical to me.

I'm sorry but there is no patience or understanding here.

1. Just because I missed passing the "Automotive Service Consultant" ASE test doesn't mean I'm not ASE Certified. If your manufacturer knew what they were talking about they'd realize that's one test out of about 12 you can be certified in. That test was to be certified as a service writer, which doesn't mean anything when we're talking about professional accreditation towards being an automotive technician. The manufacturer is splitting hairs here and making themselves look like fools.

2. Your manufacturer is making things up. I have in front of my right now what's commonly referred to as a Toyota "BGB" or Big Green Book, I.E. the FACTORY service manual. There is no "Radiator Cap" section in the factory service manual, and your manufacturer should realize this if they had a true Toyota FSM in their posession. Furthermore, part of the radiator replacement procedure is to test the system at up to 17.1 PSI PER THE SERVICE MANUAL. But most importantly, your manufacturer seems to not understand how a radiator cap works. It holds pressure up to a certain point, as stated on the cap, that being 13 PSI, 13.5 PSI, etc. The cap won't allow more pressure in the system than what it's rated for. Your manufacturers argument that a 13.0 PSI cap allowed too much pressure over a 13.5 PSI cap is simply WRONG. My cap was an OEM spec replacement, 13.0 PSI is OEM, this cap was a replacement for that, same OEM spec. OEM Toyota or not, the cap is the proper spec pressure for the car.

3. Your manufacturers warranty is a scam, plain and simple. Ask your manufacturer to find a single shop that meets their criteria that will allow someone to bring in a part to have installed. They won't. An ASE Certified mechanic is all the certification needed, as that person is a recognized professional.

4. The picture that showed a shadowed shot of the condenser does nothing to prove any damage. How about if I said that my A/C system is 100% functional, and while there may be a bent fin or two on the condenser by looking at the picture, there is no damage significant enough to cause any issue with anything, and it's purely normal road damage from having 160K miles on the car. It is completely unrelated to this radiator failure and another weak attempt at slithering out of a legitimate warranty claim.

5. NO ONE uses distilled water. NONE of your manufacturers "professional service dealers" do, OEM dealership service centers don't, indy shops, chain shops, NO ONE uses distilled water. I had a 50/50 mix of coolant and water in the radiator.

6. Temperature variations. When I drove the car to work the temp was in the 70's. When I drove it home, it had dropped into the lower 40's. If the radiator can't handle that, it doesn't need to be on a car.

Obviously the manufacturer doesn't stand by it's products. If they did, they'd own up to the fact that this was a failure and not any installation issue or the like. I will be contacting American Eagle/Champion Radiators directly, as well as the BBB for CA where they're based, and will be seeking other customers with similar issues for a potential class action suit as it's obvious that they rarely if ever cover a warranty claim. I will also be doing my part to spread the word about the shoddy business practices of the company at this point for it's blatant semantics based excuses to try to get out of a valid warranty claim for a $70 radiator. Pathetic.

And I'm sorry but I can say no good things about Aeon Imports at this point either, as you as a vendor had a chance to step up and make this right yourselves, but chose not to, sticking with the manufacturers cheap words instead of backing up a paying customer.

Ok, I admitted I didn't use distilled water during installation. EVERY shop I've ever been in, and I do mean EVERY, never uses distilled water. Tap water on demand.

This following email was my last one I sent and I never heard back, obviously being ignored at this point (this was on May 7th. I called them out on all their bs about receipts for coolant and water needing to be provided, etc.

Last thing I want to point out.

http://www.championradiators.com/warranty-return-policies

This is directly from the manufacturers website. There are NONE of the stipulations they have given me listed. NONE. The only stipulation listed was industry standards and professional service dealer. I am a professional mechanic, which should more than suffice. Industry standards do not stipulate a flush MUST be done. I challenge the manufacturer to find a single shop that uses distilled water and not tap water.

Fact of the matter is that my radiator failed prematurely due to nothing but the radiator itself, and Champion/American eagle and/or Neon Imports needs to acknowledge that fact and make right on it.

I posted all this up so I could advise everyone, stay far FAR away from American Eagle and/or Champion Radiators as the do NOT honor their lifetime warranty, and be cautious when dealing with Aeon Imports on ebay also as they just want to regurgitate what the manufacturer says instead of perhaps eating $70 in order to see a satisfied customer. The extent they (both) went to in order to dodge a very valid warranty claim is just pathetic. If you feel like it, spread the word, as people need to be aware of what they're buying if purchasing from these vendors/manufacturers. A shoddy piece of equipment promoted as having a lifetime warranty but in actuality will leave you high and dry.

Continued in next post.

[richee3]

I've read that on here a few times but the 94 GT I had, both 96 ST's, and my '98 GT had both fans working at the same time. I can't speak for the '96 GT I had since it never ran but basically all of my Celicas had both fans going or neither.