3rd Generation ST205 3SGTE Celica VS. 4th Generation ST215 3SGTE Caldi, Comparisons Options

[trdproven]

I was bored so I compiled this info together. I'm actually researching into this a bit. I wanted to get some info onto our own site, as its possible we might head into this movement as the mr2 homies are.

ST205 3rd Gen 3sgte

ST215 4th Gen 3sgte


3rd Generation ST205 3SGTE Celica VS. 4th Generation ST215 3SGTE Caldina
- 4th gen essentially needs only the motor, ECU, and everything that goes with the harness wiring while the 3rd gen pretty much needs the front clip or all the accessories complete
- 4th gen has a larger throttle body
- 4th gen uses ct15 vs 3rd gen ct20 turbo
- 4th gen uses a one-piece turbo/manifold vs 3rd gen but you can still get your own or make your own manifold and pick your own turbo
- 4th gen different exhaust manifold bolt pattern than 3rd gen but still fits same for all S family if 3rd can fit on 5s and 3rd can fit on 4th
- 4th gen different downpipe than the 3rd gen
- 4th gen Intercooler is Air to Air vice Air to Water on the 3rd Gen (Run FMIC for 4th gen unless you switch to air to water setup or create a Caldina style air scoop)
- Both 540cc/min injectors but 4th gen has top feed high impedance vs 3rd gen side feed low impedance
- 4th gen – quicker spooling turbo
- 4th gen has COP (Coil on Plug) while 3rd gen has distributor
- 4th Gen manifold is better with side feed while 3rd gen is almost a center feed
- Midpipe will need to be welded to connect downpipe and rest of exhaust – same for both gens
- S Family transmission or E153 transmission both fits keep the axles and shift cables based on the transmission you use. So you have to match your mounts to transmission as well.
Same Engine Mounts as GT, You can use a 3s flywheel, 3s pressure plate, and a 3s disc splined for 5s or just use the 5s disc.
- Radiator hoses stay the same, either use 5S or 3S
- 4th Gen now is getting cheaper and doable many shops like chico and prime have done many on celicas, mr2s, and even rav4s – more 4th gens are now popping up for sale
- Essentially and by assumption a 4th gen would provide a less beat up engine with low miles since it was mostly an automatic from Japan and newer, but that’s not guaranteed.
- 4th gen requires axle carrier bearing locating pins since the 2nd/3rd gens had them already pressed in but the 4th gen is missing them – get it from Primemr2 and press or tap it in
- 4th gen requires tach adapter. This device converts the tachometer signal from the Gen4 engine to be compatible with the existing tachometer
- Both still need the Supra TT fuel pump or Walbro 255
- 4th gen prior has mentioned internals are weaker such as the rods, but it was found that many of the internal part numbers are the same than 3rd gen.
- 4th gen cylinder walls are thicker than 3rd gen
- 4th gen runs a 9:0:1 compression ratio rather than the 8:5:1 of the 3rd gen
- External drive belts should be the same I believe
- 5S 2.2L PS and AC is possible to mount on to the 4th gen same as 3rd gen
- Head gaskets may be different I’m not sure but I see them as two different part numbers
- Question lies: Where do you get replacement parts for the ST215? It’s difficult to say at this point where a good source is at but with the 4th gen movement some used parts may soon become move available. I’m starting to see some parts being sold on ebay and other sites.
- Other info: The combustion chamber is different. It has a different shape for better pressure recovery. The ports are also different. They are cleaner (better machined) and have different intake valve angle grinds.

YEAR COMP DISPL. POWER TORQUE CAR
1994-1999 8.5:1 1998cc 241hp@6000rpm 225lb-ft@3400rpm ST205 (Celica)
1997-2002 9.0:1 1998cc 255hp@6200rpm 240lb-ft@4400rpm ST215 (Caldina)

Wiring: Can be done by Primemr2 or wiregapinc (mr220v) or by yourself if you want

Aftermarket downpipe: can be found on Primemr2

I’m not taking credit for anything, I’m simply compiling information instead of all this scattered information all over the web.

REFERENCES: www.mr2oc.com, alltrac.net (pitcelica), ilovemysilly, plachum, wiregapinc, 6gc.net forums, toymods.au, and others who I may not have mentioned that provided some input on threads

If there are corrections to be made or additions, that would be great.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Aug 28, 2016 - 4:54 AM

[DarkDeath]

good stuff, also one thing though:

- Both use the same turbo CT20b

I believe the gen4 3sgte uses a CT15B?

Definitely going for a 4th gen swap right now, and I definitely want to be part of finding out the ins and outs of this engine, since alot of info of this engine is tossed all over (rods are weak, but some say they handle fine etc) it'll be good to get some concrete and new info by having it.

~DarkDeath

[trdproven]

good stuff, also one thing though:

- Both use the same turbo CT20b

I believe the gen4 3sgte uses a CT15B?

Definitely going for a 4th gen swap right now, and I definitely want to be part of finding out the ins and outs of this engine, since alot of info of this engine is tossed all over (rods are weak, but some say they handle fine etc) it'll be good to get some concrete and new info by having it.

~DarkDeath

according to some forum sources and mywikimotors, it was a ct20b

[DarkDeath]

good stuff, also one thing though:

- Both use the same turbo CT20b

I believe the gen4 3sgte uses a CT15B?

Definitely going for a 4th gen swap right now, and I definitely want to be part of finding out the ins and outs of this engine, since alot of info of this engine is tossed all over (rods are weak, but some say they handle fine etc) it'll be good to get some concrete and new info by having it.

~DarkDeath

according to some forum sources and mywikimotors, it was a ct20b

I've also seen some sources say that it was a ct20b but I've always noticed the post was really old. I'm certain the gen4 comes with a CT15b unless there are variants? can someone confirm if there were? my sources are:

http://www.atsracing.net/Parts/Details/TUR-SWEET16
http://www.primemr2.com/store/p339/CT15_St...bo_Upgrade.html
http://www.mr2oc.com/61-3sgte-turbo/501322...b-vs-ct15b.html (he's saying he wants to upgrade to the ct20b or keep the stock ct15b on his gen4)

~DarkDeath