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> Looking for advice on performance, Swap, hybrid, rebuild?
post Sep 25, 2004 - 11:16 PM
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Delta_Phoenix



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I've already made my cosmetic and suspension plans for my Celica that will come in the future, but now I have to think about what is going to be under the hood. Sometimes it only frustrates me to think about it so I figured I would get some ideas and opinions.

OK, so far I've pretty much ruled out a 7a-fte project. It just doesn't seem like it will pay off in the long run. The minimum goal I'm wanting to achieve is 250 whp, and 250 lb-ft. of torque. How I get that... I really don't care. The problem I'm having is that I don't know where to start. I want something that is going to completely blow people's minds when they see it. I know that getting something like that requires custom work - and I'm not talking about the homemade kind (unless you're someone that knows how to do it). I don't know anyone at all that can make custom headers, mounts, intakes, piping, etc.

I know that probably the most fun project would be a 7a-gte. I'm really impressed by frotou's project. After seeing all the custom work he's had done, I doubt I would ever be able to pull something like that off. I guess the only other option I have would to be a 4a-gze or 3s-gte swap. After seeing all the trouble that John went through with his 4a-gze, I'm kinda iffy about that as well. I know that the 3s-gte would give me trouble since I have an ST. I haven't done that much research about it. I don't know which generation of the 3s-gte is better, or if it's more common to find a USDM 3s-gte for the swap or a JDM 3s-gte. Sitting around and thinking about all this just makes me want to turn the Celica into a beater and save up for an EVO. But despite that, all my friends say I should keep the Celica and fix it up beyond belief. I guess that's the path I'll go unless a swap or hybrid project drives me insane. I am by no means a car expert, and I wouldn't even touch my engine in any way other than to change the oil, spark plugs, belts, or any other job that a monkey with a wrench could do successfully. I'm all about tearing it apart to learn about it, but I wouldn't consider putting anything together on my car without some supervision (I think I got lucky when I successfully replaced my front axles). I dunno, maybe I know more about cars than I think, but I'm still nervous to do anything big.

Alright, I started rambling. So give me your ideas, opinions, criticism or anything else you can come up with.
 
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post Sep 30, 2004 - 1:43 PM
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Mr2swift

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QUOTE (Kwanza26 @ Sep 29, 2004 - 9:41 PM)
QUOTE (Mr2swift @ Sep 29, 2004 - 6:59 PM)
No sir, I am not talking about building the motor as I do not believe in opening up a motor to improve on what Toyota has already done. Especially when we are discussing A series and S series engines. I am talking about bolt on performance to get to 250whp.



Ron (909) 283-3778
Motors Unlimited

Well in that case, i'll again disagree. I have yet to see stock 4AGZ internals take enough boost to make 250whp reliably. Sure people run turbo set-ups off of the 4AGZ block, and boost up to hit 250 whp to run a few at the dragstrip or something, but 250whp out of the 4AGZE (turbo or upgraded supercharger), is gonna take more work than bolting stuff up. I doubt the stock rods/pistons can take more than 15 psi reliably with an effieicent charge... assuming you can supply enougn fuel and tune it all up...

As for the S series, the stock bottom-ends have proven to hold up to 15psi fairly well so long as fuel is good. 15psi on a well tuned 3SGTE makes well over 250 whp... but 15 psi on a well tuned 4AG/T/Z barely breaks 210 whp with an efficient turbo/supercharger... at least I've yet to see a 4AGZ be boosted up to 250whp on stock internals...

Excellent point Kwanza26, as I am really getting to like this message board. Unfortuneately, you are now on a subject "4agze" that I personally specialize in. First off the bottom end of the 4agze late model is so robust that it is just over kill. Problem with alot of 4agze owners is that they add power but do not tune it properly, and they are early model 4agze owners. Properly tuned the 4agze can handle 250 to the wheels reliably with no problems at all. I am currently running 210 to the wheels at 17 pounds of boost from my twinscrew supercharger and Link engine management. Many people are running 225+ at the wheels with no problems at all, untuned! Forged pistons, rods as big as crower, oil squirters under the pistons, forged crank, 365cc injectors, and 7 rib block. Believe me when I tell you folks, the late model 4agze is quite robust, but must be tuned properly. I am sure the early model 4agze can handle the power output as well, but the bottom end of the late model 4agze is really what you want to build your powerhouse around. On the other hand, 250whp from a 3sgte would be more easy to attain and tuning is not as big of an issue. I speak from personal experience as well as the many Toyota owners I have dealt with over the years to bring facts to this message board and not speculation.


Great Forum!
Ron (909) 283-3778
Motors Unlimited

Posts in this topic
- Delta_Phoenix   Looking for advice on performance   Sep 25, 2004 - 11:16 PM
- - Kwanza26   250 whp is a VERY ambitious goal. The 4AGZE canno...   Sep 25, 2004 - 11:33 PM
- - Delta_Phoenix   I guess I'll just get a new car then. No poten...   Sep 25, 2004 - 11:48 PM
- - Kwanza26   QUOTE (Delta_Phoenix @ Sep 26, 2004 - 4:48 AM) I g...   Sep 25, 2004 - 11:55 PM
- - Delta_Phoenix   I just want to take full advantage of the Celica...   Sep 26, 2004 - 3:25 AM
- - celicasupra209   How about this. swap your 7afe into a new/low-mi...   Sep 27, 2004 - 4:43 PM
- - Mr2swift   For starters, the 4agze will and can get to 250+ t...   Sep 28, 2004 - 11:35 PM
- - Kwanza26   QUOTE (Mr2swift @ Sep 29, 2004 - 4:35 AM) For star...   Sep 29, 2004 - 12:22 AM
- - Mr2swift   No sir, I am not talking about building the motor ...   Sep 29, 2004 - 1:59 PM
- - Kwanza26   QUOTE (Mr2swift @ Sep 29, 2004 - 6:59 PM) No ...   Sep 29, 2004 - 4:41 PM
- - celicasupra209   QUOTE (celicasupra209 @ Sep 27, 2004 - 9:43 PM) Ho...   Sep 29, 2004 - 4:44 PM
- - playr158   you don't need the gt-4 hood for the S/c i don...   Sep 29, 2004 - 4:52 PM
- - psyko   i know edo17982 is rebuilding the 7a internals (he...   Sep 30, 2004 - 9:16 AM
- - Mr2swift   QUOTE (Kwanza26 @ Sep 29, 2004 - 9:41 PM) QUOTE (M...   Sep 30, 2004 - 1:43 PM
- - Kwanza26   QUOTE (psyko @ Sep 30, 2004 - 2:16 PM) i know edo1...   Sep 30, 2004 - 1:45 PM
- - Supersprynt   He wants 160 wheel hp? thats optimistic on a 7a, b...   Sep 30, 2004 - 1:52 PM
- - Kwanza26   QUOTE (Mr2swift @ Sep 30, 2004 - 6:43 PM) Excellen...   Sep 30, 2004 - 2:06 PM
- - Delta_Phoenix   Well now that the matter of tuning the 7A came up ...   Oct 1, 2004 - 7:31 AM
- - recneps   ive seen a dyno sheet of a 7a-fte makign 160whp at...   Oct 1, 2004 - 8:15 AM
- - recneps   heres the dyno http://www.6gc.net/photo.php?file=...   Oct 1, 2004 - 8:27 AM
- - lagos   think of it this way.....what motor would give you...   Oct 1, 2004 - 9:08 AM
- - Delta_Phoenix   I've been looking around at some of the swaps ...   Oct 2, 2004 - 7:31 AM
- - Kwanza26   QUOTE (Delta_Phoenix @ Oct 2, 2004 - 12:31 PM) But...   Oct 2, 2004 - 11:33 AM
- - Delta_Phoenix   I've read about everything I possibly can abou...   Oct 3, 2004 - 4:19 AM
- - shadycrew31   i feel as though the 7a isnt getting enough credit...   Oct 3, 2004 - 6:34 AM
- - Delta_Phoenix   I'm just not too interested in boosting an eng...   Oct 3, 2004 - 11:03 AM
- - Mr2swift   QUOTE (Kwanza26 @ Oct 2, 2004 - 4:33 PM) The silv...   Oct 3, 2004 - 11:41 AM
- - playr158   "i feel as though the 7a isnt getting enough ...   Oct 3, 2004 - 12:20 PM
- - Kwanza26   QUOTE (shadycrew31 @ Oct 3, 2004 - 11:34 AM) i fee...   Oct 3, 2004 - 2:46 PM
- - shadycrew31   oh i know that with stock internals it will suck. ...   Oct 3, 2004 - 4:57 PM
- - shadycrew31   oh one more thing kwanza do you know if the 4a...   Oct 3, 2004 - 5:05 PM
- - Kwanza26   QUOTE (shadycrew31 @ Oct 3, 2004 - 9:57 PM) but i ...   Oct 3, 2004 - 6:14 PM
- - shadycrew31   i wish i had your bain kwanza. your like a toyota ...   Oct 3, 2004 - 7:05 PM
- - Delta_Phoenix   Haha, yeah he's right. The 7a DOES have 2 cams...   Oct 3, 2004 - 7:49 PM
- - playr158   couldn't we figure out a way to drive them sep...   Oct 3, 2004 - 7:55 PM
- - Delta_Phoenix   You'll have to ask Kwanza about that one. All ...   Oct 3, 2004 - 8:13 PM
- - shadycrew31   dont those cams are so small in the 7a, it makes y...   Oct 3, 2004 - 9:38 PM


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