Body Roll, FWD Roll Options

[CrazyJ]

After reading the now closed "body roll" topic I just want to add that I can make my 94 SSII JDM 2.0 Celica (3sge) drift around a round-a-bout (these simplify big junctions in the uk)...

I was doing about 20mph driving like miss daisy in third gear barely touching the acceleration and my back end came right out whilst on a 2/3 lock of the wheel to the right.... It came out so bad I drifted the last 1/3 of the round-a-bout off to my exit... very cool and extremely scary....any doubters and I will take you for a spin myself (if you live near of course) and er prove it...

Any I was defo driving carefully because the missis was in the car...

I have had the front shocks changed and the anti roll bar bushes since, also waiting for the cv joints to be changed,.. I can still make it do it but have to work harder now.

just for the record.

Cheers

J

[doGGy]

here goes my story...

At first then i bought my celica (compleatly stock, on stock 15 steeles), i almost crashed it like 3 times, and this was just becose my tail was sliding so bad, that i didnt knew what to do... It wasnt drifting, but the tail of my car was so light, that after few sharp turns of the wheel on gravel i could drift to the outside of the corner so easy not even using my handbrake... same happend on normal roads.. few times i came to sharp to the corner and tail just slided, leaving my car at 35' angle in the corner... it was no fun at all, i was just sceard cuz of not being able to control then my there my car gonna go control... In winter it was fun, cuz i ould drift (yes kwanza DRIFT ) any corners i wanted without handbrake...just few sharp turns of the steering wheel, and tail just slided easily...

It all ended then i lowered my car, and put the 225/45 on... from what day, i can do crazy speed corners without been sceard of my tail sliding away... only thing that im sceard what my front or whole car will lose grip and i will end up at safty bariers...

[Kwanza26]

here goes my story...

At first then i bought my celica (compleatly stock, on stock 15 steeles),  i almost crashed it like 3 times, and this was just becose my tail was sliding so bad, that i didnt knew what to do... It wasnt drifting, but the tail of my car was so light, that after few sharp turns of the wheel on gravel i could drift to the outside of the corner so easy not even using my handbrake... same happend on normal roads.. few times i came to sharp to the corner and tail just slided, leaving my car at 35' angle in the corner... it was no fun at all, i was just sceard cuz of not being able to control then my there my car gonna go control... In winter it was fun, cuz i ould drift (yes kwanza DRIFT ) any corners i wanted without handbrake...just few sharp turns of the steering wheel, and tail just slided easily...

It all ended then i lowered my car, and put the 225/45 on... from what day, i can do crazy speed corners without been sceard of my tail sliding away... only thing that im sceard what my front or whole car will lose grip and i will end up at safty bariers...
[right][snapback]221682[/snapback][/right]

I just keep repeating the same sh!t over and over so it's becoming pointless. I've driven cars to the brink and even destroyed one and I assure you, getting the tail to slide is not an easy task. Dry pavement makes it a completely different game (I've said this I don't know how many times)... snow is easy, gravel and dirt is easy because you don't have to set on the gas to continue the slide. You can tap it. Pavement, well, any attempts at major throttle control will cause the front to increase grip and understeer. No throttle control will cause loss of speed and result in grip (spin-out of understeer). *Sigh*... I need to get on a track and demonstrate. That'll be the only way you people can know the differences...

[doGGy]

I know what you talking about Kwanza. I'v been on the track, done AutoX, and i love driving, so i know what im talkinb bout too.. Im not saying what i was drifting like crazy in my car at 20 mph.. it was just like this, then i changed lanes i jumped from right lane to left on a really slow corner, and i saw few cars in the left lane so practicly after 1 sec, i turned my wheel back to the right lane, and the tail just lost the grip, the point is what then i changed to the left lane and then i saw cars, i braked a bit, so this could iniciate the tail slide then i turned to the right...

Another thing, was in winter, then i got out of the road didnt even knowing what happend.

It was night and i was driving home, doing about 45 mph, in front of me there was a truck traveling my way, so i turned to the right a bit, just to make clear what he wount hit me, and at the same time i changed from 4 to 3 gear just in case.. road was pure snow. and then i let the clutch of after changing gears, my tail just started sliding (road there wasnt straigh, and it was small uphill, and it was really easy right turn)...

And youare saing that its not and easy task to make the tail slide on paivmen...Well then i will ask you, how do you think, if i was doing like 40 mph, on a straight road, right lane, turned my wheels sharply to the left and after this turned my wheels to the right and braked for a few second ? What would happend? I think what a good driver could make his tail lose grip like this 8 times from 10...

Im just asking, dont wanna get the s!it going, im not trying to argumentate, and im just telling the story HOW and what happend...

~doggy...good luck with your drifting...i bet you'll slam into something because when you turn...that's if you turn you'll just slide....The lil blizzard thing we just had the other day in Ohio I went to turn but turning was not an option...I found it very usefull to drift every turn so that I could make it completely...

Slammed my 2 cars before, same story, cornering at high speed... Lost control with my corolla (winter, but road was kinda clear) and ended up on the sidwalk, 2 wheels damaged, and some suspension damage... Thanks fro wishing me to get the same result in celica...

here goes my story...

At first then i bought my celica (compleatly stock, on stock 15 steeles),  i almost crashed it like 3 times, and this was just becose my tail was sliding so bad, that i didnt knew what to do... It wasnt drifting, but the tail of my car was so light, that after few sharp turns of the wheel on gravel i could drift to the outside of the corner so easy not even using my handbrake... same happend on normal roads.. few times i came to sharp to the corner and tail just slided, leaving my car at 35' angle in the corner... it was no fun at all, i was just sceard cuz of not being able to control then my there my car gonna go control... In winter it was fun, cuz i ould drift (yes kwanza DRIFT ) any corners i wanted without handbrake...just few sharp turns of the steering wheel, and tail just slided easily...

It all ended then i lowered my car, and put the 225/45 on... from what day, i can do crazy speed corners without been sceard of my tail sliding away... only thing that im sceard what my front or whole car will lose grip and i will end up at safty bariers...
[right][snapback]221682[/snapback][/right]

I just keep repeating the same sh!t over and over so it's becoming pointless. I've driven cars to the brink and even destroyed one and I assure you, getting the tail to slide is not an easy task. Dry pavement makes it a completely different game (I've said this I don't know how many times)... snow is easy, gravel and dirt is easy because you don't have to set on the gas to continue the slide. You can tap it. Pavement, well, any attempts at major throttle control will cause the front to increase grip and understeer. No throttle control will cause loss of speed and result in grip (spin-out of understeer). *Sigh*... I need to get on a track and demonstrate. That'll be the only way you people can know the differences...
[right][snapback]221754[/snapback][/right]

This post has been edited by doGGy: Dec 16, 2004 - 2:05 AM

[Kwanza26]

And youare saing that its not and easy task to make the tail slide on paivmen...Well then i will ask you, how do you think, if i was doing like 40 mph, on a straight road, right lane, turned my wheels sharply to the left  and after this turned my wheels to the right and braked for a few second ? What would happend? I think what a good driver could make his tail lose grip like this 8 times from 10...

Im just asking, dont wanna get the s!it going, im not trying to argumentate, and im just telling the story HOW and what happend...
[right][snapback]222163[/snapback][/right]

KamiX and I went over this dozens of times also... but to make this technique work on pavement for a FWD car requires a whole lot more speed than 40mph and it still won't work the way you're describing it... The thing is, regardless of weight shifts, the front is pulling the rear. The rear will follow the front no matter what. It just doesn't work like what you *think* or what people *think* it should. The rear may skip out for a second or two, but as soon as the front start gripping, the rear follows. There's simply too much grip on pavement.
Basically there are a few things that can happen. An unexperienced driver will panic, tap the brakes and spin out. A controlled driver will let the car slide through without touching anything... in that case, the car will eventually slow down, regain grip and understeer or spin out (depends on angle of car). An experienced driver may want to step on the gas to induce grip to the front causeing the car to understeer and then attempt to control the understeer. An experienced and controlled driver will control the throttle, brakes and allow the car to correct itself normally. There are really no scenarios where a FWD car can hold a tight angle and allow the tail to slide for more than a few split seconds.
Say for example, during a hard corner entry into a right hand turn and you do the feint technique, all of the weight will be carried to the front left-hand side of the car. The feint technique is used to point the front in the direction you want to go and hold front grip. This also has the effect of weight shifting to the outside front... Even with weight off of the rear wheels, there is NOTHING to drive them and push them out, to cause a tail slide... inertia won't do it because the car is already moving at a steady pace in that direction. They're simply following the front. There may be some cases where the rear is unstable and skips about, but in a FWD car, the rear rarely comes out on its own. From there, any of the events I've tried to describe above can happen depending on the driver.

And again... cannot compare sliding in the snow to pavement.

[doGGy]

Period.
Compleatly true, and there is nothing to add.

And youare saing that its not and easy task to make the tail slide on paivmen...Well then i will ask you, how do you think, if i was doing like 40 mph, on a straight road, right lane, turned my wheels sharply to the left  and after this turned my wheels to the right and braked for a few second ? What would happend? I think what a good driver could make his tail lose grip like this 8 times from 10...

Im just asking, dont wanna get the s!it going, im not trying to argumentate, and im just telling the story HOW and what happend...
[right][snapback]222163[/snapback][/right]

KamiX and I went over this dozens of times also... but to make this technique work on pavement for a FWD car requires a whole lot more speed than 40mph and it still won't work the way you're describing it... The thing is, regardless of weight shifts, the front is pulling the rear. The rear will follow the front no matter what. It just doesn't work like what you *think* or what people *think* it should. The rear may skip out for a second or two, but as soon as the front start gripping, the rear follows. There's simply too much grip on pavement.
Basically there are a few things that can happen. An unexperienced driver will panic, tap the brakes and spin out. A controlled driver will let the car slide through without touching anything... in that case, the car will eventually slow down, regain grip and understeer or spin out (depends on angle of car). An experienced driver may want to step on the gas to induce grip to the front causeing the car to understeer and then attempt to control the understeer. An experienced and controlled driver will control the throttle, brakes and allow the car to correct itself normally. There are really no scenarios where a FWD car can hold a tight angle and allow the tail to slide for more than a few split seconds.
Say for example, during a hard corner entry into a right hand turn and you do the feint technique, all of the weight will be carried to the front left-hand side of the car. The feint technique is used to point the front in the direction you want to go and hold front grip. This also has the effect of weight shifting to the outside front... Even with weight off of the rear wheels, there is NOTHING to drive them and push them out, to cause a tail slide... inertia won't do it because the car is already moving at a steady pace in that direction. They're simply following the front. There may be some cases where the rear is unstable and skips about, but in a FWD car, the rear rarely comes out on its own. From there, any of the events I've tried to describe above can happen depending on the driver.

And again... cannot compare sliding in the snow to pavement.
[right][snapback]222304[/snapback][/right]

[RedSunCelica]

Period.
Compleatly true, and there is nothing to add.

And youare saing that its not and easy task to make the tail slide on paivmen...Well then i will ask you, how do you think, if i was doing like 40 mph, on a straight road, right lane, turned my wheels sharply to the left  and after this turned my wheels to the right and braked for a few second ? What would happend? I think what a good driver could make his tail lose grip like this 8 times from 10...

Im just asking, dont wanna get the s!it going, im not trying to argumentate, and im just telling the story HOW and what happend...
[right][snapback]222163[/snapback][/right]

KamiX and I went over this dozens of times also... but to make this technique work on pavement for a FWD car requires a whole lot more speed than 40mph and it still won't work the way you're describing it... The thing is, regardless of weight shifts, the front is pulling the rear. The rear will follow the front no matter what. It just doesn't work like what you *think* or what people *think* it should. The rear may skip out for a second or two, but as soon as the front start gripping, the rear follows. There's simply too much grip on pavement.
Basically there are a few things that can happen. An unexperienced driver will panic, tap the brakes and spin out. A controlled driver will let the car slide through without touching anything... in that case, the car will eventually slow down, regain grip and understeer or spin out (depends on angle of car). An experienced driver may want to step on the gas to induce grip to the front causeing the car to understeer and then attempt to control the understeer. An experienced and controlled driver will control the throttle, brakes and allow the car to correct itself normally. There are really no scenarios where a FWD car can hold a tight angle and allow the tail to slide for more than a few split seconds.
Say for example, during a hard corner entry into a right hand turn and you do the feint technique, all of the weight will be carried to the front left-hand side of the car. The feint technique is used to point the front in the direction you want to go and hold front grip. This also has the effect of weight shifting to the outside front... Even with weight off of the rear wheels, there is NOTHING to drive them and push them out, to cause a tail slide... inertia won't do it because the car is already moving at a steady pace in that direction. They're simply following the front. There may be some cases where the rear is unstable and skips about, but in a FWD car, the rear rarely comes out on its own. From there, any of the events I've tried to describe above can happen depending on the driver.

And again... cannot compare sliding in the snow to pavement.
[right][snapback]222304[/snapback][/right]

[right][snapback]222316[/snapback][/right]

i nominate this thread to be locked whos with me ........ jk