3S-GTE vs modded 5S, just thinking Options

[Consynx]

i know most people say 3S-GTE because it was made for power...
but just think w/ me for a sec

Cost to swap 3S-GTE into a GT: ~$3000(yes i said $3000)
Mods for 5S-FE:
Camshaft Regrings $500, Guaranteed 30hp(WebCams)
Custom Turbo Kit $1200
Spearco Intercooler $1000
that right there should put you right at, if not over the 3S-GTE's horsepower.
then an ECU programming would be in line, along with possible lowering of compression and all...


just food for thought.
any suggestions why the 5S-FE is a bad idea?

[snadman]

Now now children. Let's not fight.

This engine swap vs. turbo stock is a very controversial issue and has many sides depending on how you look at it....let's go into it area by area.

Legalities:
Any type of engine swap is illegal unless it's the engine that was offered in that car originally. Like say if you had a 96 Supra TT with the 2JZGTE engine but you hated the fact that it was only offered in automatic plus you really liked the fact that the 98 versions of the Supra TT were offered with VVT-i which gave you an extra meaty 5 more horsies. Now this is legal. The cars had the same chassis code and engine code so this is all legal. However, if you start changing any internals or the engine code itself, this is illegal. The 3sgte engines were not offered in the Celicas with a ST204 chassis code only the ST205, so this is illegal. On the contrary, the engine code for the 6th gen GT's was 5S-FE not 5S-FTE. Even if it's not officially like that, this is still changing the internals to a point where it is illegal.
The verdict: Both choices get zero points in this category.

Availability of Parts (Non-Performance Parts):
Since the 3S-GTE was offered in the the US versions of the 90-93 Celica GT-4 asw ell as the 90-95 MR2 Turbo, there will be readily available parts. Obviously, since the 6th gen GT was offered with the 5S-FE in the US, it will also have readily available parts. In other words, for any of those concerned it's not a concern.
The Verdict: Both get one point for this topic.

Availability of Perfomance Parts:
The 3S-GTE clearly owns this area. You can basically get everything for these engines and then some. The availbility of upgraded internals is there as well as turbo upgrade kits. The 5S-FTE has endless possibilities, but only if you're will to fabricate some parts as needed....so this would apply to any car that you turbocharge yourself.
The Verdict: 3S-GTE gets a point here.

Safety:
If you're not careful when turboing your 5S-FE, you may need a new engine soon. These engines weren't made to carryt turbos, but with the correct internals you can make it safe. The 3S-GTE was made for turbo and was amde ot handle a lot of horsies.
The Verdict: 3S-GTE gets a point here again.

:::SCORE:::
3S-GTE: 3
5S-FTE: 1
Wait a minute, two more areas of discussion.

Price:
The 5S-FE, if you buy the Burien kit as well as intercooler and other needed things that aren't included, can cost close to $4,000. This may seem like a lot but consider that the average 3S-GTE shipped will cost you, on average now don't bite my head off, $2,500. That is not necessarily including unexpected things either. For instance, if you get the clip from an imported GT-4, you will not be able to use the wiring harness form that vehicle, because it's for a right-handed driver vehicle. You will need to find the almighty rare wiring harness for the left side, unless you redo everything in which case you'd be better off importing a GT-4. I've heard costs of the 3S-GTE swap csoting in the upwards of $5,000...sometimes more if you ge tthe newest generation 3S-GTE with low miles and not a clip. That's another thing, you don't want to swap in an engine with 94xxx miles if your 5S-FE has 104xxx. This kind of defeats hte purpose, you are trying to upgrade...and this means maintainance wise too I'm sure. You want to spend extra money on upgrading your engine not fixing it, so you're going to want a low mileage 3S-GTE.
The Verdict: Point for the 5S-FTE.

Ease Of Installation:
The 3S-GTE swap can be done...possibly...over a weekend if there's more than one person working on it. The 5S-FTE conversion can be done easily in a weekend with one person, maybe even in just a day if you work from early in the morning until about dinner time with minimal breaks. Also, dependings on which 3S-GTE you get, the difficult increases. The swap can be a very painstaking process, and oyu pretty much make the instructions as you go because there will most definitely be surprises. With the 5S-FTE conversion, you will not have to really prepare for the unexpected as much because there are written instructions and everything you need will be there for your need. There will be no little extras like with the 3S-GTE. If you do the swap, you may find yourself or your buddies that help you asking the same question over and over "Where does this go?" The first few times you may even fix it right there at the moment and figure it out, but as you get more tired and more frustrated with it, you will not be able to think as clearly and you may get mad and not be able to figure things out as you could earlier in the day. It all comes down toy uor emotional stability, which if I were to talk about that it would be off of the subject from ease of installation.
The Verdict: Point for the 5S-FTE because it can be a one man project in a weekend.

:::SCORE:::
3S-GTE: 3
5S-FTE: 3

Now it all comes down to what you decide. As stated in earlier posts, you can get the same ammount of horsies from an intercooled 5S-FTE as you can from a stock 3S-GTE. Personal preference rules this question and that's all there is to it guys.

Snadman

This post has been edited by snadman: Mar 30, 2003 - 4:52 PM