Controlling boost for better traction, and other means of improving grip Options

[CilverSeliST205]

For a while i was considering buying myself a new toy, Turbosmart E-Boost 2, an EBC with a variety of features, one of them being the capability to map boost against time, rpm or GEAR. Now, I have noticed that breaking the traction on street tires is likely to occur not only on a hard launch from a dead stop, but also at WOT in 1st and 2nd gear short time after going over 10psi. Since this unit can control boost depending on gear i guess we could use it to stay within limits of traction in those gears! yes? no? suggestions? comments?

Since im still on internal WG and my actuator is on 13-14 psi, the EBC itself wouldn't help... Is there a way to lower WG actuaction pressure?? That is without welding the flapper shut and going external.

This post has been edited by CilverSeliST205: May 23, 2006 - 12:13 AM

[jgreening]

Its a good idea. It is a topic that I have thought alot about. Here is a list of ways to address traction issues:

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

I think you should do #1 before #2 or #3 because it is allows you to harness more power. The same might be said for #4 but its really uncharted territory for the 6gc.

[CilverSeliST205]

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

5. Stiffer motor mounts
6. Stiffer suspension
7. Wastegate/spool-up control - progressive opening of the wastegate could be used to bring the boost up at slower rate - staying within traction limits
8. Limited slip diffrentials

[jgreening]

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

5. Stiffer motor mounts
6. Stiffer suspension
7. Wastegate/spool-up control - progressive opening of the wastegate could be used to bring the boost up at slower rate - staying within traction limits
8. Limited slip diffrentials

I am not sure that 5 or 6 would help with traction
7 is the same as 3
8 is one I forgot because I already have it

[CilverSeliST205]

1. Wider / stickier tires
2. Traction control computer ($1000+)
3. RPM/Gear Dependent Boost Control - boost controller or EMS.
4. Traction bars (would be a fabricated piece but alot of fwd hondas have aftermarket pieces available)

5. Stiffer motor mounts
6. Stiffer suspension
7. Wastegate/spool-up control - progressive opening of the wastegate could be used to bring the boost up at slower rate - staying within traction limits
8. Limited slip diffrentials

I am not sure that 5 or 6 would help with traction
7 is the same as 3
8 is one I forgot because I already have it

5. Stiffer motor mounts help reduce wheel hop caused by motor vibration, but that is only an issue with a hard launch...
6. Stiffer suspension does help to keep grip on corners and also on launch, i know that from my own experience
7. Full wastegate control, like a device which you can plug into computer and see the graph of boost vs rpm vs angle of the gate, yes any ebc has an option which lets you set the point of opening the wastegate prior to reaching max allowable boost, and that is used to fine tune for best compromise between laggy spoolup and boost spike. A device/feature in ebc that I am talking about is opening a wastegate at a chosen angle at a chosen boost/rpm/time and therefore modifying the output of a turbo to produce power slower/less torque in lower gears, not necessarily just stoping boost increase at preselected level (any ebc), but allowing the boost to rise at slower rate can help stay in grip. With such device you could fine-tune power level to meet the margin of your tires' grip...
8. I'm jealous

[jgreening]

7. Full wastegate control, like a device which you can plug into computer and see the graph of boost vs rpm vs angle of the gate, yes any ebc has an option which lets you set the point of opening the wastegate prior to reaching max allowable boost, and that is used to fine tune for best compromise between laggy spoolup and boost spike. A device/feature in ebc that I am talking about is opening a wastegate at a chosen angle at a chosen boost/rpm/time and therefore modifying the output of a turbo to produce power slower/less torque in lower gears, not necessarily just stoping boost increase at preselected level (any ebc), but allowing the boost to rise at slower rate can help stay in grip. With such device you could fine-tune power level to meet the margin of your tires' grip...

I have never heard of such a thing. Do you have a link I could look at?

[CilverSeliST205]

I have never heard of such a thing. Do you have a link I could look at?

Nope, never heard of it either but such device SHOULD exist, I mean it would be too beneficial for turbo FWD cars to be able to manipulate power output is such way. Well I hope that in today's era of SRT4 someone will surely will see a great value to such device/feature, and some performance parts producer will surely relase a product capable of such WG control.

About them traction control computers, what are our options and on what principle do they work?

Maybe I will see if Carl wants to produce a set for a group buy....

Please do! I would certainly be down to get one of these

This post has been edited by CilverSeliST205: May 23, 2006 - 9:32 AM

[jgreening]

Nope, never heard of it either but such device SHOULD exist, I mean it would be too beneficial for turbo FWD cars to be able to manipulate power output is such way. Well I hope that in today's era of SRT4 someone will surely will see a great value to such device/feature, and some performance parts producer will surely relase a product capable of such WG control.

About them traction control computers, what are our options and on what principle do they work?

Maybe I will see if Carl wants to produce a set for a group buy....

Please do! I would certainly be down to get one of these

Racelogic Traction Control - the Supra guys swear by it.

Racelogic Traction Control

As for your wastegate device, in application, I do not think that it would work any differently from RPM dependent boost control since its not the onset of boost that causes problem but a boost point that the wheels spin at a given gear and RPM. Also, the list I created was one of realistic options - not pipedreams. j/k

I will put a feeler group buy thread together for the traction bars to see if there is sufficient interest before contacting Carl - he is just like any other business man - he will do it if there is money to be made.

[swerve]

Racelogic Traction Control - the Supra guys swear by it.

In regards to the racelogic traction control.

I spoke with the local distributor in Australia. Parts + Fitting = AUD$2900 (approx US$2150)

These things sound HOT!

The unit works by reading the wheel speeds sensors in the ABS setup (very easy to add the sonsor if you don't have ABS). It reads in 1/1000 second intervals so it is very responsive. When it detects a slip from the wheels speed sonsor, it skips an injector cycle (for all intents let just say this is like a misfire, but without the fuel).

The greatest thing about the unit is not only do you have 0% slip, 10% slip, 20% slip etc settings for the traction control buts you also get 2 other awesome features thrown in.

1. Launch Control (check out the racelogic site for the supra drag vid) Maintains a preset rev level for rising of boost prior to launch.

2. Flat shifting. a switch on the clutch pedal recognises the clutch is depressed, and limits the rev to a preset level with your foot still flat on the throttle (maintaining boost)

So whilst it seams pretty bloddy expensive, all 3 features make it a solution worth saving for, for my setup.