OEM parts vs generic, is it that much better? Options

[Hanyo]

I'm about to change the timing belt, water pump, pully on the celica.

It has got me thinking, is it worth it to put genuine toyota parts in there?

I mean, how much longer is the old 7afe gonna last before the valve seals leak and i will be pulling off the head anyways. I've given up on modify the celica, and ditching plans to turbo the 7afe. So this engine will not be under the heat and stress modified engines face.

[Kwanza26]

personally... if it has a "lifetime warranty" which most aftermarket parts do... then I'm satisfied. There isn't enough reason, in my experience, of replacing with ONLY OEM parts. OEM prices are just too high. I've never had any generic parts break down on me...

[GTS13]

personally... if it has a "lifetime warranty" which most aftermarket parts do... then I'm satisfied. There isn't enough reason, in my experience, of replacing with ONLY OEM parts. OEM prices are just too high. I've never had any generic parts break down on me...

Dude, haven't you ever seen Tommy Boy? I prefer any part that is guaranteed to work and last without that "lifetime warranty." That way I don't have a manufacturer saying "oops" and sending me the same part constantly because it's under "lifetime warranty."
Definitely OEM FTW.
If you get to know your parts manager at your local dealer, he'll usually cut you a deal since OEM parts are pretty damned expensive. It's all about the PR baby.

This post has been edited by GTS13: Jun 20, 2007 - 5:28 PM

[Kwanza26]

Dude, haven't you ever seen Tommy Boy? I prefer any part that is guaranteed to work and last without that "lifetime warranty." That way I don't have a manufacturer saying "oops" and sending me the same part constantly because it's under "lifetime warranty."
Definitely OEM FTW.
If you get to know your parts manager at your local dealer, he'll usually cut you a deal since OEM parts are pretty damned expensive. It's all about the PR baby.

Hey... it's your money. I just think it's hilarious that all of you guys want justification for spending more by crappin on generic parts that you haven't really had experience with. I fixed cars for a living for a LONG time, and I know what you mean by "wrong parts"... but that's ALWAYS because the parts people you're ordering from have crappy databases... or you don't know what you're looking for. I've never had any major problems EVER, with generic parts. Granted OEM is better quality, but price versus quality, generic will win every single time.

[alltracman78]

Dude, haven't you ever seen Tommy Boy? I prefer any part that is guaranteed to work and last without that "lifetime warranty." That way I don't have a manufacturer saying "oops" and sending me the same part constantly because it's under "lifetime warranty."
Definitely OEM FTW.
If you get to know your parts manager at your local dealer, he'll usually cut you a deal since OEM parts are pretty damned expensive. It's all about the PR baby.

Hey... it's your money. I just think it's hilarious that all of you guys want justification for spending more by crappin on generic parts that you haven't really had experience with. I fixed cars for a living for a LONG time, and I know what you mean by "wrong parts"... but that's ALWAYS because the parts people you're ordering from have crappy databases... or you don't know what you're looking for. I've never had any major problems EVER, with generic parts. Granted OEM is better quality, but price versus quality, generic will win every single time.

I've had experience with them.
Lifetime warranty can be worthless.
Example:
Tools
Craftsman is lifetime warranty. I buy the good Craftsman too, not the cheaper stuff.
It still breaks. I've broken 1 of my 3/8" rachets 3 times, my 1/4" once. wrenches too.
Snap On breaks too sometimes. Just not as frequently.
Autocrap tools are lifetime warrenty too.
I don't think there are many tools made at this point that aren't.
Put a Duracrap wrench next to a Snap On one.
Go use it on a rusted bolt. Use it again and again when your livelihood depends on it.
Then tell me it's worth it.
I have an Autocrap starter in my truck [from when I didn't know any better] with a lifetime warranty.
I've replaced it 4 times, and it's about time for #5 [good battery and 2g wires directly to the chassis and battery].
It get's old when you have to keep going back for the same stuff again and again.

Sometimes aftermarket parts are good.
Goodyear makes good belts.
So does Gates.
Timken and Fedral Mogul make good bearings.
NGK makes awesome plugs.
Aftermarket doesn't always mean you are getting a sub par quality part.
But unless you know what you are looking for you stand a good chance of getting just that.

There are MANY more that are junk.
Duracrap springs to mind.

Lower quality parts won't always give you trouble, or break soon than OEM.
But they are more likely to.
OEM parts aren't always perfect. They have thier problems at times.
The timing guides on the 22R/RE is a good example.
Every once in a while you'll get a bad starter or alt.
But it's MUCH less common than aftermarket.

Here's what I can think of off the top of my head
-Wheel bearings.
OEM has a plastic seal between races to keep dust/dirt out.
Alot of aftermarket ones don't [some do, like Timken].
-Water pumps.
OEM has a MUCH better machined impeller to move the coolant/water than the cast aftermarket version.
AND it comes as a complete pump vs the half style of aftermarket [4 cyl].
-Spark plugs.
We've got a whole pile of Bosch/AC Delco/ect that caused misfires.
Replaced with Denso that fixed problem.
-Cap/rotors.
Aftermarket don't tend to last as long as OEM.
Sometimes wires will go much faster as well.
-Starters
-Alternators
-A:F and O2 sensors that throw codes

If this is true

I fixed cars for a living for a LONG time

Then this is most likely a lie or you really don't have much clue what you're talking about.

I've never had any major problems EVER, with generic parts. Granted OEM is better quality, but price versus quality, generic will win every single time.

Either way it leads me to question your judgement.......
ANY statement with never or always in it is usually inaccurate.
I would roll with it if you had said usually, or mainly.
But knowing the amount of ill fitting and poorly made parts out there, and assuming your long career, I find this VERY hard to believe.
Especially since almost every mechanic I know admits to having trouble at one time or another with aftermarket parts, either fitment or quality.
Now of course there is the "major problems" part.
What is a major problem?
It exploding in your face?
Making the car burst into flame?
Or just not fitting right, or breaking too often?

I would call a water pump that causes the engine to overheat continuously a major problem.
Not the wrong pump, just cheap cast impellers that don't push enough coolant.

Or CV shafts that last a year and start clicking.

A timing belt that lasts a bit over a year and strips 3" of teeth.

The starter in my truck.

Do those qualify as a better deal?
Did the generic "win"?
I paid less. In some cases alot less.

It really sucks for me when I have to keep doing it.
Even more for a shop if they warrenty the labor for the part.

[Kwanza26]

I've had experience with them.
Lifetime warranty can be worthless.
Example:

Then this is most likely a lie or you really don't have much clue what you're talking about.

Let me laugh for a second... hahahahaha.

Ok... now let your common sense take over... and then perhaps you'll understand what I mean. NOWHERE did I say OEM quality was less than generic. NOWHERE did I say parts won't EVER break down. Parts break down, that's the nature of mechanics. Whether or not they break down due to normal wear, or abnormal quality, is the point here. So... how can an opinion based on MY experience be a lie... just because you disagree? Because there's a warantee, which replaces any faulty part for free, means its quality is in question? Why? Like I said, i've never had any major problems, meaning... NO abnormal breakdowns. Yeah, I've had wrong parts sent in. Yes, I've recieved parts that were missing stuff, all pointed out, all replaced promptly. Never put in a waterpump that didn't work, never installed a belt that "broke" simply because of its branding. Regualr maintainence parts are all the same to me. If you want to spend MORE money on OEM, go ahead. Is it worth it? If it makes you "feel" better, then yeah. To me, no. If you want to nitpick about warantee, well, consider new cars all have warantees. Does this imply they'll NEVER break? NO. Nor does a warantee on a PART, but at least on a part the warantee will be honored if you fear anything catastrophic is gonna happen just because it's "generic." Manufactures ALWAYS lose money to cover a warantee. I highly doubt their parts are SOOO crappy as people tend to imply, otherwise they wouldn't be in business.

I've never had any major problems EVER, with generic parts. Granted OEM is better quality, but price versus quality, generic will win every single time.

Either way it leads me to question your judgement.......
ANY statement with never or always in it is usually inaccurate.

Says who? Like I mentioned before, we're talking about mechanical parts here. There is no absolute. "I've never had major problems" simply means, I've never had major problems. Does that mean I've "never had problems" period? Uhh... no. What do I mean by "major"? Uhh... by major I mean exactly what you guys who pay OEM price for parts is all afraid of. Abnormal problems due to quality.

I would roll with it if you had said usually, or mainly.
But knowing the amount of ill fitting and poorly made parts out there, and assuming your long career, I find this VERY hard to believe.
Especially since almost every mechanic I know admits to having trouble at one time or another with aftermarket parts, either fitment or quality.

Since when am I trying to convince you? Look above to how I define "major" and compare that to how I define quality. I've never had a situation where the "quality" of a part cause problems. I'm pretty convinced when people have problems with parts, it's because they're backyard mechanics who ordered the wrong sh!t, or the store they ordered from gave them the wrong sh!t. I can't tell you how many times customers have come in with their own "cheap parts" that were the wrong sh!t. Getting the *right* part is sometimes difficult depending on the manufacture of the car/engine in question. I'll give people that much. Some american cars are lame because they had too many variations of the same parts on the same model car and engine. One specific one that comes to mind, the Toyota 22R. Different waterpump castings on the block between 2WD models and 4WD models. Most 22R trucks/cars running around today hardly have their original motors, so buying a pump can be more difficult. Does that mean "blame" the part because the quality is so shoddy it doesn't line up properly?

Now of course there is the "major problems" part.
What is a major problem?
It exploding in your face?
Making the car burst into flame?
Or just not fitting right, or breaking too often?

Defined above. You seem to be having a hard time with common sense today.

I would call a water pump that causes the engine to overheat continuously a major problem.
Not the wrong pump, just cheap cast impellers that don't push enough coolant.

I would call that, you got problems elsewhere. By their very nature, water pumps flow water. They don't regulate the engine temp directly.

Or CV shafts that last a year and start clicking.

Because this cannot simply be related to alignment, wheels, tires, balance...

A timing belt that lasts a bit over a year and strips 3" of teeth.

I've seen the same with OEM timing belts... why do you think most of them have gone chain.

Do those qualify as a better deal?
Did the generic "win"?
I paid less. In some cases alot less.

It really sucks for me when I have to keep doing it.
Even more for a shop if they warrenty the labor for the part.

Everyone has experiences... but if that's your justification... fine. I NEVER said, OEM parts aren't better than generic. I said, in almost all cases, the price difference makes generic parts better overall. I think it's silly to blindly go with what internet mechanics think. That's why, even in this topic, I stayed pretty neutral, only stating price versus quality, generic is probably better for most people. Don't know why that touched such a nerve with you. The mechanics I know, almost always go generic. The ONLY people who buy OEM, are enthusiast mechanics. They're willing to pay for peace of mind. Our shop let's you choose, and I've even clearly stated the advantages and disadvantages. For easy to replace parts, I always say generic. For difficult to replace parts, I tend to reccomend top-quality parts, but this also depends on the car.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Jun 23, 2007 - 2:45 PM

[alltracman78]

[quote name='Kwanza26' date='Jun 23, 2007 - 2:38 PM' post='571599']
Let me laugh for a second... hahahahaha.

Ok... now let your common sense take over... and then perhaps you'll understand what I mean. NOWHERE did I say OEM quality was less than generic. NOWHERE did I say parts won't EVER break down. Parts break down, that's the nature of mechanics. Whether or not they break down due to normal wear, or abnormal quality, is the point here. So... how can an opinion based on MY experience be a lie... just because you disagree? Because there's a warantee, which replaces any faulty part for free, means its quality is in question? Why? Like I said, i've never had any major problems, meaning... NO abnormal breakdowns. Yeah, I've had wrong parts sent in. Yes, I've recieved parts that were missing stuff, all pointed out, all replaced promptly. Never put in a waterpump that didn't work, never installed a belt that "broke" simply because of its branding. Regualr maintainence parts are all the same to me. If you want to spend MORE money on OEM, go ahead. Is it worth it? If it makes you "feel" better, then yeah. To me, no. If you want to nitpick about warantee, well, consider new cars all have warantees. Does this imply they'll NEVER break? NO. Nor does a warantee on a PART, but at least on a part the warantee will be honored if you fear anything catastrophic is gonna happen just because it's "generic." Manufactures ALWAYS lose money to cover a warantee. I highly doubt their parts are SOOO crappy as people tend to imply, otherwise they wouldn't be in business. [/quote]

I never said
That you said OEM quality was less
That you said parts [OEM or aftermarket] won't break
That because it has a warranty it's quality is in question

As for why they're in business if they're so crappy, look no further than Made In China, Walmart [not eveything, but alot], spinner hubcaps, ect, ect.
Use that common sense.

[quote name='Kwanza26' date='Jun 23, 2007 - 2:38 PM' post='571599']
[quote name='Kwanza26' post='570612' date='Jun 20, 2007 - 5:34 PM']I've never had any major problems EVER, with generic parts. Granted OEM is better quality, but price versus quality, generic will win every single time.[/quote]
[quote]
Either way it leads me to question your judgement.......
ANY statement with never or always in it is usually inaccurate.
[/quote]
Says who? Like I mentioned before, we're talking about mechanical parts here. There is no absolute. "I've never had major problems" simply means, I've never had major problems. Does that mean I've "never had problems" period? Uhh... no. What do I mean by "major"? Uhh... by major I mean exactly what you guys who pay OEM price for parts is all afraid of. Abnormal problems due to quality.
[quote]
I would roll with it if you had said usually, or mainly.
But knowing the amount of ill fitting and poorly made parts out there, and assuming your long career, I find this VERY hard to believe.
Especially since almost every mechanic I know admits to having trouble at one time or another with aftermarket parts, either fitment or quality.
[/quote]
Since when am I trying to convince you? Look above to how I define "major" and compare that to how I define quality. I've never had a situation where the "quality" of a part cause problems. I'm pretty convinced when people have problems with parts, it's because they're backyard mechanics who ordered the wrong sh!t, or the store they ordered from gave them the wrong sh!t. I can't tell you how many times customers have come in with their own "cheap parts" that were the wrong sh!t. Getting the *right* part is sometimes difficult depending on the manufacture of the car/engine in question. I'll give people that much. Some american cars are lame because they had too many variations of the same parts on the same model car and engine. One specific one that comes to mind, the Toyota 22R. Different waterpump castings on the block between 2WD models and 4WD models. Most 22R trucks/cars running around today hardly have their original motors, so buying a pump can be more difficult. Does that mean "blame" the part because the quality is so shoddy it doesn't line up properly?[/quote]

Here's where that common sense thing kicks in again.

See as even you seem to agree that OEM is usually better quality, and even OEM parts have major problems ([Abnormal problems due to quality, as you said], as in they break early, or don't work at all) once in a while, I find it VERY hard to believe that you have [direct quote here]
"I fixed cars for a living for a LONG time, and I know what you mean by "wrong parts"... but that's ALWAYS because the parts people you're ordering from have crappy databases... or you don't know what you're looking for. I've never had any major problems EVER, with generic parts. Granted OEM is better quality, but price versus quality, generic will win every single time."
NEVER had any major problems with admittedly inferior parts. That it's always the person ordering the parts [or the database] fault.

Man it stinks when your own words turn around and bite you in the bum, huh?
Must be the same thing you claim I have, lack of common sense?

Oh, and for the record, 22R/RE engines don't have the water pump casting in the block at all. It's part of the timing chain cover.
And IIRC the difference isn't between 2WD/4WD, but between engine years.

[quote name='Kwanza26' date='Jun 23, 2007 - 2:38 PM' post='571599']
[quote]
Now of course there is the "major problems" part.
What is a major problem?
It exploding in your face?
Making the car burst into flame?
Or just not fitting right, or breaking too often?
[/quote]
Defined above. You seem to be having a hard time with common sense today.
[quote]
I would call a water pump that causes the engine to overheat continuously a major problem.
Not the wrong pump, just cheap cast impellers that don't push enough coolant.
[/quote]
I would call that, you got problems elsewhere. By their very nature, water pumps flow water. They don't regulate the engine temp directly.
[quote]
Or CV shafts that last a year and start clicking.
[/quote]
Because this cannot simply be related to alignment, wheels, tires, balance...
[quote]
A timing belt that lasts a bit over a year and strips 3" of teeth.
[/quote]
I've seen the same with OEM timing belts... why do you think most of them have gone chain.
[/quote]

Quick lesson in cooling system theory.
By their very nature smaller impellers push less coolant than larger ones. If the difference is drastic enough the engine will overheat from lack of heat transfer.
That particular case was my car, and it has almost brand new coolant and a good radiator in it.
The cooling system [other than the pump] was 100%.

The CV shafts went directly from the lift to the alignment rack.
If the wheels were out of balance enough to cause an CV joint to go bad in a year they would also noticeably effect driving quality.

I guess those are due to a lack of common sense?

Toyota timing belts almost never break early. They usually last well beyond their expected interval.
The ONLY [yes, the single, only case] OEM Toyota T belt I have seen break prematurely was caused by a damaged idler pulley a tech didn't want to fix. I haven't seen every T belt ever used, so I'm sure there are ones that have broken early.
But there are no TSBs and no campaings for OEM timing belts from Toyota.
They didn't stop using belts because they broke early, they stopped so they could lower the maintenance cost of their cars.
Just like every other manufacturer.

For the record, when I refer to OEM I mean Toyota OEM, not all manufacturers BTW.

[quote name='Kwanza26' date='Jun 23, 2007 - 2:38 PM' post='571599']
[quote]
Do those qualify as a better deal?
Did the generic "win"?
I paid less. In some cases alot less.

It really sucks for me when I have to keep doing it.
Even more for a shop if they warrenty the labor for the part.
[/quote]
Everyone has experiences... but if that's your justification... fine. I NEVER said, OEM parts aren't better than generic. I said, in almost all cases, the price difference makes generic parts better overall. I think it's silly to blindly go with what internet mechanics think. That's why, even in this topic, I stayed pretty neutral, only stating price versus quality, generic is probably better for most people. ... Our shop let's you choose, and I've even clearly stated the advantages and disadvantages. For easy to replace parts, I always say generic. For difficult to replace parts, I tend to reccomend top-quality parts, but this also depends on the car.
[/quote]
IMO it's not worth it when the part you buy has a lifetime warrenty and you have to keep going back again and again and again and again to have it replaced.
That much is up to each person to decide, I agree.

[quote name='Kwanza26' date='Jun 23, 2007 - 2:38 PM' post='571599']
Don't know why that touched such a nerve with you. The mechanics I know, almost always go generic. The ONLY people who buy OEM, are enthusiast mechanics. They're willing to pay for peace of mind. [/quote]
You normally seem to know what you are talking about, so most of the members look to you for advice.
When you blatantly post crap like you've never had an aftermarket part break early or not work right [your statement in my words, and not counting wrong parts] the members that don't know any better see this and think it's true.
And before you try and say it is, go back and reread the large red type, and reflect on the fact that I who have had a shorter career than you I assume [~ 6 yrs, part in private shops and part in a dealer], have had both aftermarket and OEM fail on me [major problem in your words].

You aren't necessarily deliberately lying, you probably got all worked up when you saw folks criticizing aftermarket parts, and posted that without thinking.

Regardless, I can see no way that it is true.

And THAT is what touched a nerve.

Oh, and one more example of your posting accuracy, do all the folks that go to dealerships for work qualify as enthusiast mechanics?
Or are they regular folks just like your customers, only they also want that peace of mind the "enthusiasts" do?

This post has been edited by alltracman78: Jun 28, 2007 - 7:51 PM