Timming belt question, dont be cheap or this will happen to you Options

[NaderG]

I am getting my timing belt replaced along with all other belts on the car this weekend , at meineke and i wanted to know what should i look for after they are done and how to know that things werent done right, i bought the belts myself from toyota but i just dont trust these guys 100% lol, they pretty cheap which is suspicious. Also i know that the water pump should be replaced with the timing belt , but i will procrastinate on this one

This post has been edited by NaderG: Mar 18, 2008 - 11:03 PM

[NaderG]

**** !!! , i shouldnt have done it , the old belt was actually in pretty decent shape , the drive belts were awfull , but the timing belt was in very good shape ... well here is what is happeneing :

- engine has much less power
- engine has what sounds like an extra click ... i told them right away and they said it might be a lifter and has nothing to do with the belt job !??!?
- it running awful and sounds like a meat grinder from 2K-3K RPM ..
-i also tried to drive it a bit hard , so i full accelerated goin on the freeway , and the car felt like it was suffering



EDIT : timing is for sure off , i am guessing the moron who did the car didn't line up the two cams properly after he set the crank to TDC , maybe off by a couple of teeth which is causing the car to act funny .... now as far as i know , the 5sfe is a non interference engine , which means my valves are getting twisted , but that clicking sound is freaking me out , i will go back to the shop on Saturday and have them check and fix the timing , and if i have problems , i will try to go to some other mechanic , get it fixed , then sue them ... or something

lol , i dont think i will get any sleep till i go to the shop , i am really freaking out about this

This post has been edited by NaderG: Mar 13, 2008 - 11:29 PM

[Turbo_Toy_Madnes...]

**** !!! , i shouldnt have done it , the old belt was actually in pretty decent shape , the drive belts were awfull , but the timing belt was in very good shape ... well here is what is happeneing :

- engine has much less power
- engine has what sounds like an extra click ... i told them right away and they said it might be a lifter and has nothing to do with the belt job !??!?
- it running awful and sounds like a meat grinder from 2K-3K RPM ..
-i also tried to drive it a bit hard , so i full accelerated goin on the freeway , and the car felt like it was suffering



--> so what happened ???

Hi NaderG,
I'll try to help you to the best of my knowledge and skills here?! 1st: When changing a T Belt on S series (Manufacturer says 60k miles), Dealer Techs usually only change: T. Belt, Water Pump , Tensioner Pulley w/Tension Spring (little spring 2'' long attach to Tensioner Pulley back plate who presets tension on new belt when installing), they also inspect Idler Pulley for free wheeling,weird noises (bearing), end play and/or axial distortion . Second Time changing T. Belt (Manufacturer say about 120k miles),Dealer Techs will change:T. Belt,
Water Pump (second time;a water pump has a limited lifetime that's important to check up(shaft end play,bearing of pulley squealing,axial distortion of the pulley and most importantly a little orifice located often beneath the shaft of the pump which leave often debris (spill lines) of coolant most of the time cristallized redish pink coloured (Red Toyota's coolant spills when the bearing is tired and the inner seal can hold off the coolant in the W.P. housing) when this happens after a certain time,the pump will self-destrust (without letting notice since the shaft overheated and sliced in two but pulley still turning steady and freely without rotating impeller in the W.P. housing) and cause overheating if the engine is'nt turned off.(Happened to my friend GT hardtop '96 result of negligence OEM W.P. was never been changed at 176 XXX KMeters ). Back to the parts: (sorry wanted to close the loop on w.p. question ) Tensioner and spring again, this time Idler, Crankshaft Seal, Camshaft Seal, Oil pump Seal and finally The overall inspection for leaks (oil&coolant)
2nd: Possibles causes but hard to say without seeing and hearing;
-T. Belt shifted one teeth before aligned Cam & Crank T. Marks?!
-Bad Tension on T.Belt (bet they binded it too much;Some Mechs don't know the correct procedure for binding T.Belt on Toys until informed).
-Forget the lifter thing bad excuse for bad timing job since there were no such noises before went in the shop!(sometimes better off with costier labor then cheap unexperienced wannabes who pretend knowing, no disregards friend )
Finally I'll wrap up with specs:Easiest way to don't mess up and make sure T. Belt job perfect goes like this;
after everything in place (T. Marks A-1 and other components torqued) bind the little spring of the tensioner,slightly fasten the tensioner pulley bolt in place,Do at least one OttO cycle (4-stroke cycle which involves 720 degrees at the crankshaft with a ratchet and box),Verify if the Timing Marks will still perfectly align the Cam Mark and the 0 Mark at the Crank, if OK you're tension is theoricaly setted but I always untighting the tesioner pulley bolt keeping the same pressure on it, to give an extra 32th or 16th of a inch linearly in the slot tensioning the belt for the extra tension to set down and finally torque the tensioner pulley bolt.(because a new belt always stretches a bit with time and heat and sets up in the little bit worned Cam&Crank pulleys teeths; personal finition )
Hope this helps even if it's highly techs descriptive?!
(Father's 3S-FE '97 Rav4 1st T.B. job done at 134 XXX KMeters runs like manufactured set)
(Mom's 4A-FE '97 Corolla 2nd T.B. job done at 202 XXX KMeters runs like a new engine)
(My Own 5S-FE GT 2nd T.B. job done at 206 XXX KMeters runned liked hell for 2&½ years even on drag strips and street racing until clutch lining scorched off one side because of faulty clucth master cylinder )
(Next my Bros 4A-FE '96 Corolla 2nd T.B. job)
(Then eventually my '94-'95 JDM 3S-GTE on a skid (what a wonderful place to work on a T.B. ) it's supposed to have between only 30 and 45 K Miles on it according to the Japaneses Importer Guys in Montreal shop ; so I won't take chances I'll do it like it was the second time to be done, because of the age of the components! (and also the beatings it will take after the swap's done!!!)

[NaderG]

**** !!! , i shouldnt have done it , the old belt was actually in pretty decent shape , the drive belts were awfull , but the timing belt was in very good shape ... well here is what is happeneing :

- engine has much less power
- engine has what sounds like an extra click ... i told them right away and they said it might be a lifter and has nothing to do with the belt job !??!?
- it running awful and sounds like a meat grinder from 2K-3K RPM ..
-i also tried to drive it a bit hard , so i full accelerated goin on the freeway , and the car felt like it was suffering



--> so what happened ???

Hi NaderG,
I'll try to help you to the best of my knowledge and skills here?! 1st: When changing a T Belt on S series (Manufacturer says 60k miles), Dealer Techs usually only change: T. Belt, Water Pump , Tensioner Pulley w/Tension Spring (little spring 2'' long attach to Tensioner Pulley back plate who presets tension on new belt when installing), they also inspect Idler Pulley for free wheeling,weird noises (bearing), end play and/or axial distortion . Second Time changing T. Belt (Manufacturer say about 120k miles),Dealer Techs will change:T. Belt,
Water Pump (second time;a water pump has a limited lifetime that's important to check up(shaft end play,bearing of pulley squealing,axial distortion of the pulley and most importantly a little orifice located often beneath the shaft of the pump which leave often debris (spill lines) of coolant most of the time cristallized redish pink coloured (Red Toyota's coolant spills when the bearing is tired and the inner seal can hold off the coolant in the W.P. housing) when this happens after a certain time,the pump will self-destrust (without letting notice since the shaft overheated and sliced in two but pulley still turning steady and freely without rotating impeller in the W.P. housing) and cause overheating if the engine is'nt turned off.(Happened to my friend GT hardtop '96 result of negligence OEM W.P. was never been changed at 176 XXX KMeters ). Back to the parts: (sorry wanted to close the loop on w.p. question ) Tensioner and spring again, this time Idler, Crankshaft Seal, Camshaft Seal, Oil pump Seal and finally The overall inspection for leaks (oil&coolant)
2nd: Possibles causes but hard to say without seeing and hearing;
-T. Belt shifted one teeth before aligned Cam & Crank T. Marks?!
-Bad Tension on T.Belt (bet they binded it too much;Some Mechs don't know the correct procedure for binding T.Belt on Toys until informed).
-Forget the lifter thing bad excuse for bad timing job since there were no such noises before went in the shop!(sometimes better off with costier labor then cheap unexperienced wannabes who pretend knowing, no disregards friend )
Finally I'll wrap up with specs:Easiest way to don't mess up and make sure T. Belt job perfect goes like this;
after everything in place (T. Marks A-1 and other components torqued) bind the little spring of the tensioner,slightly fasten the tensioner pulley bolt in place,Do at least one OttO cycle (4-stroke cycle which involves 720 degrees at the crankshaft with a ratchet and box),Verify if the Timing Marks will still perfectly align the Cam Mark and the 0 Mark at the Crank, if OK you're tension is theoricaly setted but I always untighting the tesioner pulley bolt keeping the same pressure on it, to give an extra 32th or 16th of a inch linearly in the slot tensioning the belt for the extra tension to set down and finally torque the tensioner pulley bolt.(because a new belt always stretches a bit with time and heat and sets up in the little bit worned Cam&Crank pulleys teeths; personal finition )
Hope this helps even if it's highly techs descriptive?!
(Father's 3S-FE '97 Rav4 1st T.B. job done at 134 XXX KMeters runs like manufactured set)
(Mom's 4A-FE '97 Corolla 2nd T.B. job done at 202 XXX KMeters runs like a new engine)
(My Own 5S-FE GT 2nd T.B. job done at 206 XXX KMeters runned liked hell for 2&½ years even on drag strips and street racing until clutch lining scorched off one side because of faulty clucth master cylinder )
(Next my Bros 4A-FE '96 Corolla 2nd T.B. job)
(Then eventually my '94-'95 JDM 3S-GTE on a skid (what a wonderful place to work on a T.B. ) it's supposed to have between only 30 and 45 K Miles on it according to the Japaneses Importer Guys in Montreal shop ; so I won't take chances I'll do it like it was the second time to be done, because of the age of the components! (and also the beatings it will take after the swap's done!!!)

I am guessing the mechanics that changed my belt didn't know anything about what u just told me , and i am also guessing they wont be able to fix the problem , that is if they admit there is a problem in the first place ..... so what to do now ? should i just swallow the 140$ and go to the Toyota dealership and have them do it ?? and of course kiss goodbye a couple of months savings along with it , i really don't know what to do .. i dont have enough experience or tools for that matter to correct the problem myself , i cant really afford going to Toyota , and i don't think the mechanic will be able to fix it

oh- and when they had the car on the jack , i looked under and noticed a leak on the transmission ( between the engine and the transmission , and they told me that is possibly the rear main seal going

[Turbo_Toy_Madnes...]

**** !!! , i shouldnt have done it , the old belt was actually in pretty decent shape , the drive belts were awfull , but the timing belt was in very good shape ... well here is what is happeneing :

- engine has much less power
- engine has what sounds like an extra click ... i told them right away and they said it might be a lifter and has nothing to do with the belt job !??!?
- it running awful and sounds like a meat grinder from 2K-3K RPM ..
-i also tried to drive it a bit hard , so i full accelerated goin on the freeway , and the car felt like it was suffering



--> so what happened ???

Hi NaderG,
I'll try to help you to the best of my knowledge and skills here?! 1st: When changing a T Belt on S series (Manufacturer says 60k miles), Dealer Techs usually only change: T. Belt, Water Pump , Tensioner Pulley w/Tension Spring (little spring 2'' long attach to Tensioner Pulley back plate who presets tension on new belt when installing), they also inspect Idler Pulley for free wheeling,weird noises (bearing), end play and/or axial distortion . Second Time changing T. Belt (Manufacturer say about 120k miles),Dealer Techs will change:T. Belt,
Water Pump (second time;a water pump has a limited lifetime that's important to check up(shaft end play,bearing of pulley squealing,axial distortion of the pulley and most importantly a little orifice located often beneath the shaft of the pump which leave often debris (spill lines) of coolant most of the time cristallized redish pink coloured (Red Toyota's coolant spills when the bearing is tired and the inner seal can hold off the coolant in the W.P. housing) when this happens after a certain time,the pump will self-destrust (without letting notice since the shaft overheated and sliced in two but pulley still turning steady and freely without rotating impeller in the W.P. housing) and cause overheating if the engine is'nt turned off.(Happened to my friend GT hardtop '96 result of negligence OEM W.P. was never been changed at 176 XXX KMeters ). Back to the parts: (sorry wanted to close the loop on w.p. question ) Tensioner and spring again, this time Idler, Crankshaft Seal, Camshaft Seal, Oil pump Seal and finally The overall inspection for leaks (oil&coolant)
2nd: Possibles causes but hard to say without seeing and hearing;
-T. Belt shifted one teeth before aligned Cam & Crank T. Marks?!
-Bad Tension on T.Belt (bet they binded it too much;Some Mechs don't know the correct procedure for binding T.Belt on Toys until informed).
-Forget the lifter thing bad excuse for bad timing job since there were no such noises before went in the shop!(sometimes better off with costier labor then cheap unexperienced wannabes who pretend knowing, no disregards friend )
Finally I'll wrap up with specs:Easiest way to don't mess up and make sure T. Belt job perfect goes like this;
after everything in place (T. Marks A-1 and other components torqued) bind the little spring of the tensioner,slightly fasten the tensioner pulley bolt in place,Do at least one OttO cycle (4-stroke cycle which involves 720 degrees at the crankshaft with a ratchet and box),Verify if the Timing Marks will still perfectly align the Cam Mark and the 0 Mark at the Crank, if OK you're tension is theoricaly setted but I always untighting the tesioner pulley bolt keeping the same pressure on it, to give an extra 32th or 16th of a inch linearly in the slot tensioning the belt for the extra tension to set down and finally torque the tensioner pulley bolt.(because a new belt always stretches a bit with time and heat and sets up in the little bit worned Cam&Crank pulleys teeths; personal finition )
Hope this helps even if it's highly techs descriptive?!
(Father's 3S-FE '97 Rav4 1st T.B. job done at 134 XXX KMeters runs like manufactured set)
(Mom's 4A-FE '97 Corolla 2nd T.B. job done at 202 XXX KMeters runs like a new engine)
(My Own 5S-FE GT 2nd T.B. job done at 206 XXX KMeters runned liked hell for 2&½ years even on drag strips and street racing until clutch lining scorched off one side because of faulty clucth master cylinder )
(Next my Bros 4A-FE '96 Corolla 2nd T.B. job)
(Then eventually my '94-'95 JDM 3S-GTE on a skid (what a wonderful place to work on a T.B. ) it's supposed to have between only 30 and 45 K Miles on it according to the Japaneses Importer Guys in Montreal shop ; so I won't take chances I'll do it like it was the second time to be done, because of the age of the components! (and also the beatings it will take after the swap's done!!!)

I am guessing the mechanics that changed my belt didn't know anything about what u just told me , and i am also guessing they wont be able to fix the problem , that is if they admit there is a problem in the first place ..... so what to do now ? should i just swallow the 140$ and go to the Toyota dealership and have them do it ?? and of course kiss goodbye a couple of months savings along with it , i really don't know what to do .. i dont have enough experience or tools for that matter to correct the problem myself , i cant really afford going to Toyota , and i don't think the mechanic will be able to fix it

oh- and when they had the car on the jack , i looked under and noticed a leak on the transmission ( between the engine and the transmission , and they told me that is possibly the rear main seal going

-Rear Crankshaft seal is'nt a problem unless it's leaking a lot leaving oil spot's everywhere you go and/or making slip the clucth unvoluntaraly (a lot like when you were learning to drive stick shift ) from the oil absorbed in clutch lining making it slip and glaze/blue(ish) your friction surface on either one or both flywheel and pressure plate.
-try finding a TOY specialist around town or at least a Japan import specialist who won't charge you your pink slips to fix LoL (no need to go to the dealer !)
Cause probably the mech where you first started out this legacy won't admit fault or will try to fix up error
by probably worsting things up and charging labor anyways(I guess so??)