3SGE Beams VS 4AGE Blacktop 6SPD Options

[JoKeRkId613]

I will be getting a redtop Beams 3SGE in my Celica around mid-May. But I'm curious as to which engine really is better. I mean, if the ST205 was the exact same engine except no turbo, how much HP would it put out approximately, compared to the already NA Beams. I think Beams puts out 200HP(please correct me, if wrong...)? Thanks. I guess maybe what I'm trying to figrue out is if you stuck some low-comp pistons in the Beams and some other minor mods and the same CT26 or CT20 turbo, would it have more horses and be more powerful than the factory ST205?

Also, I'm real stuck between the Beams and 4AGE blacktop 6 speed. What would you guys choose? and why? Price isn't an issue and both engines will be left stock, maybe minor mods(Intake, Headers, Exhaust)...

Some advantages I see with the blacktop is that since my car is a coupe, I already have a tiny bit of weight advantage over a hatchback and the blacktop being a 1.6L will keep me at lower weight and it has 6speeds.

[delusionz]

Sorry Kwanza but step back a minute, I'm referring to my 3rd gen 3S-GE (Yes I know my own motor) as a silvertop head which would be the same head as used in a 3rd gen 3S-GTE. I never made any mention to 4A-GE and I'm well aware that a 4A-GE head would never fit on a 3S motor and why would you ever bother is beyond me.

Now back to the point at hand... 3rd gen head vs 4th gen head for 3S-GTE, I'm talking about torque, since in the top range, displacement is displacement, peak hp is peak hp if its still 2 litres same boost same compression. Purely the benefit of VVT-i for low end rpm response with a turbocharged application is what I'm trying to get at like the comparison I made with the 1jz going from twin turbo to single turbo vvt-i.

And yeah, VVT-i does have a changeover point, in a blacktop 4a-ge levin/trueno its at 4500rpm or 55kph in 2nd gear.

And yeah, I'm sure it's just as controllable as the way I've been able to control the RPM point of ACIS changeover in my 3rd gen 3S-GE (what I call silvertop).

[Kwanza26]

Sorry Kwanza but step back a minute, I'm referring to my 3rd gen 3S-GE (Yes I know my own motor) as a silvertop head which would be the same head as used in a 3rd gen 3S-GTE. I never made any mention to 4A-GE and I'm well aware that a 4A-GE head would never fit on a 3S motor and why would you ever bother is beyond me.

Now back to the point at hand... 3rd gen head vs 4th gen head for 3S-GTE, I'm talking about torque, since in the top range, displacement is displacement, peak hp is peak hp if its still 2 litres same boost same compression. Purely the benefit of VVT-i for low end rpm response with a turbocharged application is what I'm trying to get at like the comparison I made with the 1jz going from twin turbo to single turbo vvt-i.

And yeah, VVT-i does have a changeover point, in a blacktop 4a-ge levin/trueno its at 4500rpm or 55kph in 2nd gear.

And yeah, I'm sure it's just as controllable as the way I've been able to control the RPM point of ACIS changeover in my 3rd gen 3S-GE (what I call silvertop).

This topic was originally about the 4AGE 20V and a Beams 3SGE. When you say "silvertop" in a topic dealing 20V's... how many people are gonna know what you're talking about? And who calls the 3SGE "silvetop" anyway? Wouldn't all engines technically be "silvertops"? heh...

Anyway... yeah... I made no mention of any head swapping either, simply saying there is no comparison between the two ("silvertop" referring to 4AGE... not 3sge). As far as a turbo BEAMS goes... why? I'm not going to say VVTi can't help, because if it's tuned for FI, it surely will, but in this case... why? Why spend the extra thousands of dollars for VVTi when you can spend a few hundred for adjustable cam gears that do the same thing, arguably better in a build for the top numbers? Also, VVTi cannot be controlled to the degree ACIS can. ACIS (older versions anyway) are mechanical so they can be controlled. VVTi is electronic and built into the computer. It cannot be easily controlled, nor can it be tuned without a complete retune of the computer. Specifically, the "i" part of VVTi is its intelligence. There are no set parameters in terms of settings.

As for the 20V's (4AGs)... those are VVT, the predecessor to VVTi and it is different. There is a changeover point, but it also doesn't do the same stuff VVTi does. VVTi can do varying degrees of adjustments based on various inputs, whereas VVT only advances/retards a few degrees or so based on engine speed.

There is a BEAMS motor that they call the "silver/grey" top. It actually has a black head but only has single vvti unlike the black top.

That's specifically a "greytop"... Never heard of anything called a silvertop besides the 4AGE 20V...

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Oct 31, 2008 - 6:24 PM

[delusionz]

ACIS (older versions anyway) are mechanical so they can be controlled. VVTi is electronic and built into the computer. It cannot be easily controlled, nor can it be tuned without a complete retune of the computer. Specifically, the "i" part of VVTi is its intelligence. There are no set parameters in terms of settings.

As for the 20V's (4AGs)... those are VVT, the predecessor to VVTi and it is different. There is a changeover point, but it also doesn't do the same stuff VVTi does. VVTi can do varying degrees of adjustments based on various inputs, whereas VVT only advances/retards a few degrees or so based on engine speed.

If VVT-i is electronic then I'd assume it has an actuator that takes a 12v signal for engage and 0v for disengaged yeah?

Theres only one VVT-i that I know (never owned or driven any other vvt-i), its in my friends blacktop 4a-ge trueno (jdm stuff) because he goes crazy with foot-tech, and when I gave it a drive I punched 2nd gear from 3000 to 8000 to see what its low speed pickup was like and the only changeover Ive ever noticed is at 4500, not like a randomly seeking might be here might be there like ACIS, the whole reason why I made my own ACIS controller is because it would get stuck on/off inappropriately...