3SGE Beams VS 4AGE Blacktop 6SPD Options

[JoKeRkId613]

I will be getting a redtop Beams 3SGE in my Celica around mid-May. But I'm curious as to which engine really is better. I mean, if the ST205 was the exact same engine except no turbo, how much HP would it put out approximately, compared to the already NA Beams. I think Beams puts out 200HP(please correct me, if wrong...)? Thanks. I guess maybe what I'm trying to figrue out is if you stuck some low-comp pistons in the Beams and some other minor mods and the same CT26 or CT20 turbo, would it have more horses and be more powerful than the factory ST205?

Also, I'm real stuck between the Beams and 4AGE blacktop 6 speed. What would you guys choose? and why? Price isn't an issue and both engines will be left stock, maybe minor mods(Intake, Headers, Exhaust)...

Some advantages I see with the blacktop is that since my car is a coupe, I already have a tiny bit of weight advantage over a hatchback and the blacktop being a 1.6L will keep me at lower weight and it has 6speeds.

[silver6gc]

Junior Posted Today, 08:55 PM
I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but a beams motor running VVTi and turbo WILL produce less power then a 3s-gte. Most turbo charged motors with VVTi or any other variable valve timing (like VTEC) has their variable valve timing removed or disengaged. Variable Valve timing creates too much overlap which reduces the horse power and torque production potential. If you are going to turbo, do not waste the money on a beams. The features of a beams motor that makes it powerful will be lost after installing a turbo. You will NOT have high compression and you will NOT have VVTi.

Are you insane? Have you ever heard of a car called the Supra, or the Soarer as previously mentioned in this thread, they got MORE torque by using VVT-i. Ask any Honda guy, they love vtec with a turbo. I have never in my life met someone who said "Oh I'm going to get rid of my vtec because I'm going to turbo my car instead.". Congratulations you fail.

I can't find the other quote I wanted to use, but to answer it, there is no change-over point with VVT-i. That's all there is to it, no arguments necessary, it is constantly variable based on engine running conditions and load.

Also, to correct any and all presumptions by anybody about the purpose of VVT-i, it's main purpose and function is to replace the EGR system and get better emissions, it is not meant as a power adder but can have the effect in certain cases (i.e. Supra and Soarer). Again, no arguments needed, I have that written "in stone" by Toyota.

[Junior]

Junior Posted Today, 08:55 PM
I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but a beams motor running VVTi and turbo WILL produce less power then a 3s-gte. Most turbo charged motors with VVTi or any other variable valve timing (like VTEC) has their variable valve timing removed or disengaged. Variable Valve timing creates too much overlap which reduces the horse power and torque production potential. If you are going to turbo, do not waste the money on a beams. The features of a beams motor that makes it powerful will be lost after installing a turbo. You will NOT have high compression and you will NOT have VVTi.

Are you insane? Have you ever heard of a car called the Supra, or the Soarer as previously mentioned in this thread, they got MORE torque by using VVT-i. Ask any Honda guy, they love vtec with a turbo. I have never in my life met someone who said "Oh I'm going to get rid of my vtec because I'm going to turbo my car instead.". Congratulations you fail.

I can't find the other quote I wanted to use, but to answer it, there is no change-over point with VVT-i. That's all there is to it, no arguments necessary, it is constantly variable based on engine running conditions and load.

Also, to correct any and all presumptions by anybody about the purpose of VVT-i, it's main purpose and function is to replace the EGR system and get better emissions, it is not meant as a power adder but can have the effect in certain cases (i.e. Supra and Soarer). Again, no arguments needed, I have that written "in stone" by Toyota.

You need to check yourself and not be so rude. Do yourself a favour and read up on cam overlap. Variable Valve Timing increases the amount of cam overlap. Reduce this overlap by removing variable valve timing and you'll see power gains in turbo applications. The supra is turbo charged and has VVT-i, but like you said it is to replace the EGR system to get better emissions. This doesn't mean that cars come from the factory tuned to the best of their capabilities. The supra would see better power production if it didn't have VVT-i or and EGR system.

[delusionz]

Junior Posted Today, 08:55 PM
I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but a beams motor running VVTi and turbo WILL produce less power then a 3s-gte. Most turbo charged motors with VVTi or any other variable valve timing (like VTEC) has their variable valve timing removed or disengaged. Variable Valve timing creates too much overlap which reduces the horse power and torque production potential. If you are going to turbo, do not waste the money on a beams. The features of a beams motor that makes it powerful will be lost after installing a turbo. You will NOT have high compression and you will NOT have VVTi.

Are you insane? Have you ever heard of a car called the Supra, or the Soarer as previously mentioned in this thread, they got MORE torque by using VVT-i. Ask any Honda guy, they love vtec with a turbo. I have never in my life met someone who said "Oh I'm going to get rid of my vtec because I'm going to turbo my car instead.". Congratulations you fail.

I can't find the other quote I wanted to use, but to answer it, there is no change-over point with VVT-i. That's all there is to it, no arguments necessary, it is constantly variable based on engine running conditions and load.

Also, to correct any and all presumptions by anybody about the purpose of VVT-i, it's main purpose and function is to replace the EGR system and get better emissions, it is not meant as a power adder but can have the effect in certain cases (i.e. Supra and Soarer). Again, no arguments needed, I have that written "in stone" by Toyota.

You need to check yourself and not be so rude. Do yourself a favour and read up on cam overlap. Variable Valve Timing increases the amount of cam overlap. Reduce this overlap by removing variable valve timing and you'll see power gains in turbo applications. The supra is turbo charged and has VVT-i, but like you said it is to replace the EGR system to get better emissions. This doesn't mean that cars come from the factory tuned to the best of their capabilities. The supra would see better power production if it didn't have VVT-i or and EGR system.

I agree with Silver6gc, Take this for example, the 1JZ-GTE lost Twin turbos in favor of a larger single huffer.... This alone would dictate a huge loss in low end torque yet the addition of VVT-i and the .5 increase in static compression along with other adjustments have led to a higher torque level at 2000 than the old peak torque level at 5000. I would say VVT-i is a very good fix for low end response, turbo or non turbo.