2 Stage 3SGTE Swap thread, Stage 1.. almost done =) Options

[SlvrCelica09]

EDIT: 8/22/09
Ok guys before commenting just know my goal is 330 hp until all 2 stages is complete.. so keep that in mind when reading my setup:

95 toyota celica GT
ST205 3sgte swap
GT tranny and axles
Stage 3 clutch kit and flywheel(deciding between 2 I like)
EDIT: ST205 fuel pump
3 inch exhaust(already installed)
ST205 downpipe

Now in order to move on to stage 3 I need to figure out which engine I want.. parts for the 185(non RC) I have found to be relatively easy in case something breaks.. alot of sites have parts for the engine.. but it turns out the 185 wiring is harder than the 205.. im leaning towards the 205.. although i think finding parts for the engine is harder.. the swap should be a bit easier and at stock I would be right at my goal which is 250 hp running stock... i know for a fact there wont be an urge to raise booast levels since stage 2(AWD Conversion) of my swap would not be completed.. and this is my only car which i use for work and not for racing intentions.. 4 now.. lol

so basically I got 2 questions that have been killing me for a while now..
axles.. is it possible to mix and match GT tranny with 3sge axles.. if so that would be a delight but I highly doubt you can.. but im asking for clarification.. and 2.. what engine do you guys think I should go with.. 185 or 205?

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Sep 26, 2009 - 6:32 PM

[95st-celica]

let us recall the test done by ATS and HUX

First HUX's Racing.....Mods list:
Stock GEN3
4" intake
Blitz SBC boost controller
3" single tip exhaust
boost cut defeated.
Helper Spring
100 octane

Max of 351whp at around 5700 rpms at 22psi (highest psi logged, 24psi at 3700rps, falling to 20psi at redline)...AFR around 11.5

ATS Racing.....Mods list:
Stock GEN2 with GEN3 electronics
3.5" intake
Power FC
Walbro fuel pump
550's
ATS FPR (50 psi)
ATS Rail
Greddy PE exhaust
3" downpipe
Helper Spring
C16 race gas

Max of 353whp at around 5700 rpms at 25psi(highest psi logged, 26psi at 5200rps, faliing to 25.5psi at redline).....AFR around 13.0

Hux......................ATS
CT20B..................CT27
351whp................353whp
22psi....................25psi
AFR 11.5...............AFR 13.0
Stock ECU............Tuned via Power FC

now grant it the gen 2 had 3rd gen electronics...that evens out, it matches the turbo ct27-ct20b i would have to say is somewhat evenly matched..a lot more so then the ct26-the ct20b, and the injectors were bumped up on the 2nd gen...everything else is esentially even...3" exhaust, intake, both are using a helper spring, and using higher octane. Yes the c16 race gas does help a bit more...but this is a pretty even test between the 2 motors..which is a perfect example of how capable a gen 2 is compared to a gen 3. i would say with the mods listed ATS spent about a $1200 more on the gen 2 to put up equal numbers. Not to mention the 2nd gen is probably running stock cams where as the gen 3 has a leg up in that catogory. we could go back and forth about this crap all day long and still get nowhere...but this is a perfect example of not going over 355HP and both motors are putting out equal numbers with little done.

[_Jim_]

now grant it the gen 2 had 3rd gen electronics...that evens out, it matches the turbo ct27-ct20b i would have to say is somewhat evenly matched..a lot more so then the ct26-the ct20b, and the injectors were bumped up on the 2nd gen...everything else is esentially even...3" exhaust, intake, both are using a helper spring, and using higher octane. Yes the c16 race gas does help a bit more...but this is a pretty even test between the 2 motors..which is a perfect example of how capable a gen 2 is compared to a gen 3. i would say with the mods listed ATS spent about a $1200 more on the gen 2 to put up equal numbers. Not to mention the 2nd gen is probably running stock cams where as the gen 3 has a leg up in that catogory. we could go back and forth about this crap all day long and still get nowhere...but this is a perfect example of not going over 355HP and both motors are putting out equal numbers with little done.

Yes, you are very much correct in saying that the GEN3 conversion for a GEN2 is a VERY nice option.....if you ALREADY HAVE a car with a GEN2 installed in it. BUT, for when deciding which generation 3sgte to swap in....might as well start with a GEN3. There was a lot more money then 1200$ in that setup tho. You have 800 for a ct27, another 1000$ for the Power FC, and another 300-500 in sensors, fuel rail, and injectors. So, it took between 2000-2500$ for the GEN2 to make the same power the GEN3 does stock. And I wouldnt even call it a fair comparison at that, because the GEN2 was running a full standalone ECU, which allows for added power through tuning, and ran much leaner AFR's then the GEN3 ECU...which again makes for more power improvements.....where as the GEN3 numbers were on a STOCK ECU, and had no tuning done.

You guys seem to be getting the wrong vibe here. If you already have a GEN2 installed in your car.....keep it. You do have options obviously for more HP. BUT, if you are considering swapping.....You should go with a GEN3. MOST people dont need over 400whp....so by going GEN3 you can obtain your power goals while still remaining on the stock ECU. To be honest, most people would be happy with 330whp and 310ftlbs, so they wouldn't even need to swap out the turbo.

This is not the first time I have said this.....but I usually bring it up when answering a question whether to turbo someone 5s or swap.....and my answer always is
Sub 300whp, turbo your 5s
300-400whp, Swap to a GEN3
400+whp.....doesnt matter what you choose.

[95st-celica]

400+whp.....doesnt matter what you choose.

edit...400+WHP.....5S-GTE..come on now jim! haha


then again 400+ can be obtained by any motor stated above