The engine's in 7th and 6th gen Celica, Why did they change?? Options

[BonzaiCelica]

So i was thinking the other day of the difference between the motor's in the 6th gen and 7th gen celica's. The 3sge engine was a very potential motor with 3rd gen producing 177 hp 142 lb torque, 4th gen "Redtop Beams" 197hp 152 lb torque and the 5th gen "Blacktop" found in the Altezza producing 207 hp and 159 lb's torque. I would say those a pretty impressive numbers.

Honda has had their vtec since the nsx first came out in the early 90's and they have been improving ever since. So why did toyota decide to go with a 1zz-ge and 2zz-ge engine for the celica. I mean the displacement went down in .2 liters. The 1.8 ltr 2zz engine came with vvtl-i to compete with honda's vtec? In the US, the celica only produced a 180 hp and in japan it produced 190 hp. Then there was the trd celica which produced 194 hp. Still that wasnt even enough to touch the Integra type r B18c5 motor which produced 195 hp and had around the same torque as the 7th.

So why didnt toyota stick with the 3sge. They could have produced an 2 ltr engine that had around 215 hp with vvt-i on the intake and exhaust manifold just like the 3sge blacktop.

[nics]

so if you put a integra type r 195hp engine, 7th gen celica trd tuned 194 hp engine and a 3sge beams 197hp engine together. Which motor would be the fastest?? All motors produce around the same horspower, one has a vtec system, another vvtl-i and the other one has vvt-i.

i know the answer to this. the 7th gen celica will win hands down. before i turboed the car i would walk all over ITR's and the weight of a car with the Beams in it will slow it down. so sure they might be making the same amount of power, but the weight will be a killer.

putting a 2ZZ in a 6th gen is not a feasible idea. it will cost to much to fabricate everything necessary to make it work. its just like everything i see a thread on NC.org when a newb asks about putting a 3S-GTE in a 7th gen. its just not worth it. and it will make the car slower

WOW..

ok there was a few weeks ago I saw on ebay that there was this 7th gen which has a 3sgte swap..
IDK why he was selling it.. IDK why he chose 3sgte to put in there..



I dont have any idea for the performance b/c the account user account was closed and cant watch the video.

feasible or not it has been done

here's a link with pics if the swap

http://www.fensport.co.uk/fensportcarsfile...rtNewCelica.htm

[Edophus]

thought this might be interesting given the discussion on power and torque bands etc, years ago i considered swapping the beams for a v6, madness i know but i like to explore options and i did some maths and decided it was a waste of time, these calcs ignore transmission loss, given they use the same box and assume the wheels are the same size to keep things simple, also assuming you shift at the point of peak power, and assuming the engines are advertised power. In practice i dont know how realistic they would be but interesting all the same, i know in reality they both rev out to 7400 but from every v6 i've seen power tails of massivly after about 5500rpm.

this is the 1mz-fe vs the redtop beams. First works out the torque at peak power, then torque at the wheels in each gear, and the mph at which its optimum to shift. make of it what you will, all that torque is only really relevant if you have the right gearing to go with it, 4th gear in the v6 and 3rd gear in the beams paints a pretty interesting picture remember its just for fun so no flaming me please

1mz-fe 190bhp @5400rpm

190 * 5252 = 997880

997880 / 5400 = 184.8

184.8 * 3.285 * 4.176 = 2535.1 - 28 mph
1.960 * 4.176 = 1512.6 - 48 mph
1.322 * 4.176 = 1020.2 - 71 mph
1.028 * 4.176 = 793.3 - 91 mph
0.820 * 4.176 = 632.8 - 114 mph


beams 3s-ge 197bhp @7000rpm

197 * 5252 = 1034644

1034644 / 7000 = 147.8

147.8 * 3.285 * 4.176 = 2027.5 - 37 mph
1.960 * 4.176 = 1209.7 - 62 mph
1.322 * 4.176 = 815.9 - 91 mph
1.028 * 4.176 = 634.5 - 118 mph
0.820 * 4.176 = 506.1 - 147 mph

This post has been edited by Edophus: Aug 13, 2009 - 2:21 PM