Beams Red top Vs *MZ-FE, Nope, no 3sgte please. Options

[njccmd2002]

Need your help. 3sgte, I have decided against this. This is not a useless post, swap is a coming!! but dont know what!!



Please Disregard swap cost, dont tell me why it cant be done, or too difficult, i dont care.

If i had 2 celicas, identical same color and everything. One is a V6 and the other one is beams, what do you want. This is not a discussion about cost, or how hard it is to swap.

I have seen HP is about the same, however there are torque differences. What does that entail?

V6 has a little more torque. I read some posts, but i know is what keeps the engine going, like momentum, but in practicality, what is it? , what does that mean to me?

Yes, I dont want hassle with turbo, at least for now, the v6 can be supercharged.

My goal is to push at least 190 hp, thats for now.

I just cant decide, im torn, i need opinions. Beams is gorgeous, but a V6 is magnificent.

This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Sep 10, 2009 - 8:34 AM

[K-ESD]

Well obviously I'm going to say go for a V6, trust me you won't regret it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9VMmMCc0UM

here's to clear up and confirm some myths

no, it does not make your car heavy
mine weighs in at 1220kg with all my extras and 1/4 tank of gas

yes it can be done cheaper than the Beams

yes there is virtually unlimited amount of easy to find parts for cheap

yes, it's very good on gas when babied, it's not bad when floored, in fact it's far better than 5SFE in town.

and NO it does not make it hard to work on, at all
it's makes it easier to work on that a 5S, some people say that and they never worked on one or even seen one
there is plenty of room all around of the engine. I don't need to squeeze into tight spaces. I can reach any spot with a wrench from top or bottom, as long as my arm is long enough.

edit: and no you don't need a lowered custom cross member, i used the stock cross member + GT4 mounts with E153, you can even use the stock GT tranny but it's not as strong.

This post has been edited by K-ESD: Sep 13, 2009 - 8:01 AM

[Edophus]

being a beams man myself i'll stick up for the beams to keep things from being one sided , It makes a lot of sense to choose the v6 for sure, and i think it'll make for a better road car, and economics and parts availability is a major factor in any choice, but if your looking for outright speed without opening the engine up i think the beams still has the edge, simply because the power band of the v6 is not matched to the gearboxes available to you.

Also i know of two 1mz-fe's here in the uk that are making 10bhp less than an unopened beams with the same mods and same aftermarket ecu, tuned by the same guy on the same dyno, and thats at only 7000rpm so not taking advantage of the engines rev potential which means with an ecu the beams keeps making power up to 8000rpm ( and beyond if you dont like your bottom end ), where as the v6 will probably be shifting 1500-2000rpm earlier. There are tuning parts available for the beams but its not a cheap engine to tune for sure, and your limited to only a few sources for parts, plus the knowlodge is heald by only a few people but it is all out there.

There is also a lot of subtle differences, such as the oiling of the engine, its only really relevant in a track situation though but the beams is a race engine ( it was built to race in N1 endurance, and formula 3000 where the rules mean you cant modify the engine ) so has sufficient oiling and baffling from the off whilst the v6's can overheat quite easily in the same scenario's because they carry the same amount of oil but the v6 has a lot more parts to cool. A lot of work has gone into the beams in this area which is obvious when you note things like the external oil drain from the side of the head to the sump etc. Toyota still use the beams for racing, its still in formula 3000, and is currently powering the s2000 corolla in rally's.

Also the weight of the 1mz is pertty much identical to the beams, with the beams probably a kilo or 2 lighter, people say the v6 is lighter, but thats because there comparing it to the 3s-gte, which has a turbo hanging off the side, and an intercooler sitting on top, the turbo alone weighs about 14kg.

heres a vid, excuse the poor quality you'll really need to peer at it, of a 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear pull in my old beams, its up a slight uphill but not that much to make a huge difference, i also had a bust thermostat, but i let it heat up before the run so i dont think it would have been pulling ignition timing. I tried to edit the vid in sony vegas to make it brighter but it wouldnt work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXWuBR_5HGA

I usually say to people if its a track car then beams, if its a road car v6. I will say for most folk the v6 is going to be the more entertaining option because of the torque and noise.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Sep 13, 2009 - 1:55 PM