The engine's in 7th and 6th gen Celica, Why did they change?? Options

[BonzaiCelica]

So i was thinking the other day of the difference between the motor's in the 6th gen and 7th gen celica's. The 3sge engine was a very potential motor with 3rd gen producing 177 hp 142 lb torque, 4th gen "Redtop Beams" 197hp 152 lb torque and the 5th gen "Blacktop" found in the Altezza producing 207 hp and 159 lb's torque. I would say those a pretty impressive numbers.

Honda has had their vtec since the nsx first came out in the early 90's and they have been improving ever since. So why did toyota decide to go with a 1zz-ge and 2zz-ge engine for the celica. I mean the displacement went down in .2 liters. The 1.8 ltr 2zz engine came with vvtl-i to compete with honda's vtec? In the US, the celica only produced a 180 hp and in japan it produced 190 hp. Then there was the trd celica which produced 194 hp. Still that wasnt even enough to touch the Integra type r B18c5 motor which produced 195 hp and had around the same torque as the 7th.

So why didnt toyota stick with the 3sge. They could have produced an 2 ltr engine that had around 215 hp with vvt-i on the intake and exhaust manifold just like the 3sge blacktop.

[BonzaiCelica]

I was looking on specs for the 2zz-ge and its seems as though the JDM 2zz-ge produces 187 hp while the European 2zz-ge produces 189 hp? hmm thats funny.

anyways. Do honda's b16, b18, k20, and f20 and 2zz-ge engines are capable of weighing so little because of the fact that they have lift on them, or is it just the material that was made when producing the engine. like the 2zz-ge is all aluminum block or something like that. which one weighs less 2zz-ge or k20?

Do you think toyota would of been able to implement a 6th gen 2.0 liter 3S-GE Dual VVT-i, fwd engine for the 7th Gen Celica producing lets say 210 hp in japan and 195 hp in usdm if they really wanted to, back when they were creating the 7th gen celica in early 1999? And the weight of the engine would be somewhere around the same weight as the 2zz-ge.

do you guys think the redtop was a hand built motor?

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 26, 2013 - 12:57 AM

[Edophus]

I was looking on specs for the 2zz-ge and its seems as though the JDM 2zz-ge produces 187 hp while the European 2zz-ge produces 189 hp? hmm thats funny.

anyways. Do honda's b16, b18, k20, and f20 and 2zz-ge engines are capable of weighing so little because of the fact that they have lift on them, or is it just the material that was made when producing the engine. like the 2zz-ge is all aluminum block or something like that. which one weighs less 2zz-ge or k20?

Do you think toyota would of been able to implement a 5th gen 2.0 ltr 3S-GE dual vvt-i, fwd engine for the 7th Gen Celica producing lets say 210 hp in japan and 195 hp in usdm if they really wanted to, back when they were creating the 7th gen celica in early 1999? And the weight of the engine would be somewhere around the same weight as the 2zz-ge.

do you guys think the redtop was a hand built motor?

2zz is quite bit lighter than the k20 i think, i dont think any of those honda motors are close to the 2zz in terms of lightness, its purely down to the dimensions and materials used, its based on the 1zz which was designed with being as light as possible in mind.

I think if toyota wanted to they could have easily created 200+ bhp 2 litre if they wanted, the 2zz was a bit of an oddity and i suspect a one off really, its done well for them but we'll not see a replacement for it i dont think, toyotas next engines will most likely be infenitly variable lift and timing, there current 2 litre has that, but its not performance orientated at about 160bhp output. Its sad to say they just havent bothered making a performance engine in the 1.6 to 2 litre class like the old 4a-ge, or 3s-ge, its not a cause they cant, its just they wont. I think if they had revised the 3s-ge with dual vvti and an aluminium block it would be a lot lighter, but also its worth remembering that the gearbox for these engines is a bit bigger, the engines itself are bigger because of wider bore spacing etc, so it would not be possible to get it as light as the 2zz as a finished package, but probably close.

no i dont think the redtop was handbuilt, they were produced in large numbers, dont forget the redtop, or greytop, which is identical bar the exhaust manifold, sold in large numbers around the world in the celica, mr2, rav4, and caldina, far to many for it to have been hand built or hand finished.