Feeler: Clear Headlight Lenses, Please vote! Options

[KAOS]

** I'm not sure if this needs approval because its in the Exterior Styling area, but mods please let me know... thanks! **

So - I have been in talks with local companies (in Canada) that are willing to work with me to help create one of two clear lenses for our headlamps.

I've been researching two different ways;

Method #1: The poly injection method, which involves creating a polished steel mold for each headlight lens and is quite expensive, but would be a direct replacement for the glass, and sturdy as hell.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NedTUB7YQE0&NR=1

Method #2: The usual plexiglass/poly mold method, done in the past; however I have a different blueprint for how I'd like them molded so still very little customization would be needed (hopefully) to make them fit/seal properly. Pro's: definately more cost effective, and cons would be; there could be a ton of modifications to get them to work properly (MAYBE, depending on if my idea works) & they would take more time to make (high turnaround time).

I have a quote from the first project/idea, and its not "pretty" but I would prefer to go that route if possible because of the quality and the idea of having a direct replacement is very appealing to myself (having dealt with the clear lens molds from prior buys...)

I know what the previous clear lenses went for $$-wise, but in order to gauge what project I start, I need to know who's interested in what. I need to know the volume perspective to see if it will be worth while (and I'd get my invested money back) to go the first route... or if there's little to no interest for the clears, then I would pursue the molding method #2.

Post up with what you would prefer, and what you would be willing to spend on them.

PS - just a rough estimate; to make Method #1 a possibility, I would need to have at LEAST 200 units made... so yeah.

Summary:

1) Polycarbonate Injection Molding: MORE $$, DIRECT REPLACEMENT, GREAT QUALITY.

2) Poly/Lexan Heated Molding: LESS $$ than Injection Molding, NOT DIRECT REPLACEMENT (but possibly very close), still great quality, but long turn around time

PLEASE VOTE!

This post has been edited by KAOS: Oct 21, 2010 - 3:10 PM

[KAOS]

Alright so I had a meeting with the owner of a major injection molding outfit here in Calgary this afternoon. Very smart guy, and very professional. I learned a lot in the half hour I was there.

The company that I talked to creates headlight lenses for GM using the same method! I was assured that the final product is lighter than glass; more durable, and OEM quality. No more rock chips in the lenses! Lightweight substitute! OEM quality & fitment!! Its too good to be true!

Unfortunately, it wasn't what I wanted to learn. I was unaware of the entire process needed for this little project of mine... turns out theres quite a bit of work to be done, and a lot of money to be invested in it.

But wait... it gets better!

The cost...

First; we need a CAD (digital) version of the lenses (~$1500CDN - not bad).
Once the CAD version has been created, test fitted, etc, then we need to machine the mold.

Now - we discussed mold types for the majority of my time there; the molds are all based on tonnage. The bigger the mold (if I wanted to make a mold of all 4 lenses at once) the more steel I would need to withstand roughly 900,000lbs of force for the injection... so obviously that means more $$$. To have a mold machined to handle all 4 at once would cost upwards of $80-100K. Yes, thats ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS worth of steel...

In the end, we came up with a casting that we could make that would have individual, swappable cores for each of the lenses, saving a lot of money in the mold making process.

We could have created the mold out of Alluminum for less $$$, but the final product would not be the 'crystal clear' that we all crave, so I put the kaibosh on that idea right away. Steel needs to be used because it can be machined so there are no imperfections in the final product; Crystal Clear & OEM quality.

To have this mold (AKA a "Tool") developed or "machined" would cost roughly around $50-$60k (thats THOUSAND).

It would cost roughly $10 in materials to cast a complete headlight set. (Sooo cheap, and for PERFECTION!)

So lets crunch these numbers together, just you & me .

Just for this example; I'll use the numbers from the polls.

I have 17 people interested in the Polycarbonate Injection version. Great!

Worst case scenario; to draft up the CAD version of the headlight lenses & create the Steel Tool required is going to cost $61,500CDN.

So for 17 runs of complete sets (all 4 lenses); the materials would cost $170CDN (easy math); now we're looking at an initial cost of $61,670CDN to get rolling. ( see where I'm going with this...?)

Selling a complete set at $310CDN (~$300USD, not including shipping); I would need to sell at LEAST 200 units to break even on this project.

Thats an enormous risk for me to take with only 17 people interested...

Unless those interested 17 are willing to pay $3700 for these lenses (which is a rhetorical joke, please do not flame me )...

With the market the way it is, I'm sure I could break even after a few months of selling them here, there & eBay. But the unfortunate factor is, I have to come up with the money before they will let me take the final product home to sell...

He said that it takes roughly 8-10wks to have the Steel Tool developed, then there may or may not be at least a 2 wk waiting period for orders (ie. there might be a line up of OTHER companies needing injections done), HOWEVER; they can crank out over 500 complete sets a day.


SUMMARY: Injection Molding is the cats-meow when it comes to replicating our lenses to OEM specs and standards; but the cost to get started is insane.

Options:
- They have specialized Leasing companies that will help me lease the "Tool" @ 7-8% interest rate - which doesn't matter because paying it off won't take much once the product is being developed.

- Waiting until I have 200 orders filled with money in my hand, and then starting the project. It would take a lot of trust for this community to do something like that, and I don't expect it to happen at all. Who knows how long it would take to get the money together this way, and even if I did; it would take ~5 months for everyone to get their product... at first anyways. Any additional runs after this would take less time.

- Thermoforming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoforming

- Acrylic Pouring: Essentially is just pouring a liquid hardening acrylic into a cast/mold and letting it set. I've been told they've been getting better at this, so there are little to no flaws in the final product.


Here's more information regarding Injection Molding: WIKI - Injection Molding


Let me know what you guys think!
Personally; I think it might be feasible. Like I said it shouldn't be hard to sell that many units, there just needs to be enough interest generated in order for me to be comfortable proceeding with the project. I'm obviously not going to invest ~$62,000 in something I don't believe I will break even on. I'm sure you all understand.

... and on that note; can anyone spot me a $100k note? Lolz

This post has been edited by KAOS: Oct 26, 2010 - 6:29 PM