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> Building a "Big Bore" 5sgte, '98 5sfe Block, 3rd gen 3sgte Head, 3sgte Crank
post Mar 15, 2011 - 10:21 AM
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presure2



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Hey All,
As some of you may know, I've been doing some work for Jim, building up his Alltrac. ( Click For Alltrac Build Thread )
He came across a deal on a build, 2nd Gen 3s bottom end here on the forum,(from itchyb) and figured we could use that, with a 3rd gen head and oil system to make a nice bullet-proof bottom end to use with a nice medium sized turbo to build a great "street beast" ....~500 AWHP that comes in quick and holds out to redline.
So Jim and his bro, Joe, brought me up the bottom end, and a stock 3rd gen engine set to get started with.
I got the built block up on a stand, and immediately noticed a serious issue with it.
The surface of the block is all pitted, and especially around the bores, like it had been shot with a Shotgun or somthing!
A few pics:









What exactly caused it, I dont know, but what I do know is I definetly wouldnt trust it to seal with a metal headgasket, and I definetly wouldnt want to have the block machined that much to bring it back to flat.
So, I figured to myself "Well, at least it has really nice pistons (it was supossed to have Arias pistons) and good rods (Eagle rods), so we have good stuff to work with" and continued to tear it down.
When I got the oil pan off, it was more "bad" news.
The pistons were not Arias, but CP pistons, which really isnt "bad", but wasnt what Jim was told was in there.
A couple pics of that: (sorry for the crappy quality, the ipod cam isnt the greatest)

Before taking it apart:



Eagle rods, ARP2000 Bolts:



CP Pistons:



Once I had that info, I called Jim.
We talked over the options, and Jim and Joe decided that if we were gonna have to have machine work done, it might as well be on the setup they'd like to do most, which would be a stroker setup.
Jim has Shannons old 5sfe bottom end, which is a 98+ block (the 98+ Celica blocks all are thicker in the waterpump corner of the block) so he said he would ship it up.
Since I still have my 5s bottom end here, I told Jim that we would just use that, and he could just bring up Shannons bottom end to replace it the next time he comes up.
Because MCS motorsports (the guys who built itchys bottom end) had some serious issues before they went under, I wanted to check the main bearing clearances before we did anything else, in case the crank needed any machine work.
The bearings that were in it were all .25mm undersized.
pic:





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post Mar 16, 2011 - 7:51 PM
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presure2



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I had a little time to go out to the garage today, and play with the setup some.

Like I had mentioned earlier, Jim wants to use the complete Gen3 oil system, including the oil cooler, on the 5sgte I'm building.
I know guys have used the Gen3 oil setup on Gen2's before, but I've yet to see a setup where someone used a 5s block, with the Gen3 oil cooler.
One of the problems is that the 3sgte oil cooler mounts to a base with a thru bolt, and the base is mounted to the block with 4 bolts.
The 5s does not use a base, the oil cooler bolts right to the block using the center thru bolt.
After messing with as many 5sfte variations as I did, I am used to messing with the oil coolers and how they mount, so I figured that if the 3s cooler had a rubber seal on the bottom, that was smaller than the outer diameter of the 5s oil cooler boss, than I would just have to figure out the mounting bolt situation.

Here are some pics of what I did.

First, a pic smaay posted of the 3rd gen oil cooler in its stock location, you can see the base it is mounted to that bolts to the block. (just like the 2nd gen 3s)



The 3rd gen oil cooler, after i removed it from the 3s block:

Attached Image

the bottom:

Attached Image

The thru bolt that bolts it in place on the 3s block:

Attached Image

After bending one of the lines for a little more clearance for now, I could sit the oil cooler flush against the 5s block, but the 3s thru bolt is not long enough to reach the threads....So,
the 5s oil cooler thru bolt is longer, but has the mount for the oil filter.
I tried that, and it works perfectly and has the appropriate holes in it to allow the oil cooler to work properly.
once my tig welder arrives, I will cut off the oil filter mount, and fill that with weld.

problem solved!! WOOOOOT! I just KNEW all that time spent messing with the 5sfte's would pay off someday! lol

::EDIT:: The 5s oil cooler bolt will not work. The easy solution is to use a 4th gen oil cooler, and thru bolt. (Its a bolt on deal with the 4th gen parts)


The 3rd gen oil cooler, bolted to the 5sfe block using the 5sfe oil cooler bolt, that will need to be modified.

Attached Image

The line on the right will be cut and modified to line up with the 3rd gen water bypass lines, and the one on the left will be cut and a 6an fitting welded to it to run the coolant back around to the back of the block like the 2nd gen 3s (the 5s has a plug in the spot where the water return fitting goes on the 2nd gen.)
Now its just a matter of getting the upper oil pan and windage tray off the 3rd gen block, drilling and tapping the appropriate holes for it in the 5s block, and the 3rd gen oil system on a 5s block will be complete!


--------------------
Former Team 5SFTE pro member ;)

13.6@108MPH, 5SFTE Powered

Posts in this topic
- presure2   Building a "Big Bore" 5sgte   Mar 15, 2011 - 10:21 AM
- - presure2   A pic of the box i made to hold the pistons/rod co...   Mar 15, 2011 - 10:55 AM
- - presure2   I torqued the main caps down, then pulled them bac...   Mar 15, 2011 - 11:15 AM
- - Johnnyny   that last pic is mindblowing   Mar 15, 2011 - 7:19 PM
- - al94st   Interesting move to go with the shorter stroke, bu...   Mar 15, 2011 - 8:17 PM
- - k-weaver   Sounds like an awesome build! Can't wait t...   Mar 15, 2011 - 11:08 PM
- - Smaay   dang those are some long runners. please post ton...   Mar 15, 2011 - 11:18 PM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (Smaay @ Mar 16, 2011 - 12:18 ...   Mar 16, 2011 - 9:47 AM
- - presure2   I had a little time to go out to the garage today,...   Mar 16, 2011 - 7:51 PM
- - Smaay   AAAGHHH i cant see the pics from work, stupid filt...   Mar 17, 2011 - 4:47 PM
- - lagos   I wonder if the lack of oil cooler on the 2zz has ...   Mar 17, 2011 - 4:59 PM
|- - Bitter   QUOTE (lagos @ Mar 17, 2011 - 4:59 P...   Aug 28, 2011 - 6:43 PM
- - Ted95   dude your knowledge of these engines blows me away...   Mar 17, 2011 - 5:42 PM
- - presure2   I ran the first version of my 5sfte without an oil...   Mar 17, 2011 - 6:48 PM
- - presure2   got the 3rd gen pans off the 3rd gen block, and fo...   Mar 21, 2011 - 6:22 PM
- - samir0189   This thread is AWESOME.   Mar 21, 2011 - 8:31 PM
- - cjh4l22   so as far as bolting up the oil pan goes thats the...   Mar 21, 2011 - 10:47 PM
- - delusionz   I think he means those 2 holes dont exist on the 5...   Mar 22, 2011 - 7:55 AM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (delusionz @ Mar 22, 2011 - 8...   Mar 22, 2011 - 8:43 AM
- - Smaay   installing squirters in a block that did not have ...   Mar 22, 2011 - 8:30 AM
- - cjh4l22   you and your great wealth of knowledge sir. i cont...   Mar 23, 2011 - 12:49 AM
- - presure2   I made a thread about itchys old block on mr2oc. E...   Mar 23, 2011 - 4:59 PM
|- - Ted95   QUOTE (presure2 @ Mar 23, 2011 - 5:5...   Mar 24, 2011 - 9:47 AM
- - Smaay   so 3rd gen oil pump is needed, does it need modify...   Mar 23, 2011 - 5:48 PM
- - presure2   yea, the 3rd gen oil pump has the parts that go wi...   Mar 23, 2011 - 7:38 PM
- - Smaay   its almost...dont say it.....HONDUA easy.....aahhh...   Mar 23, 2011 - 9:37 PM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (Smaay @ Mar 23, 2011 - 10:37 ...   Mar 23, 2011 - 10:12 PM
- - bccentaur3   Be ready for lots of grinding Manny. I did soo muc...   Mar 24, 2011 - 12:16 AM
- - Smaay   thanks for the part # for the oil pump, now what a...   Mar 24, 2011 - 8:58 AM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (Smaay @ Mar 24, 2011 - 9:58 A...   Mar 24, 2011 - 9:30 AM
- - Smaay   found these on toyodiy http://www.toyodiy.com/par...   Mar 24, 2011 - 9:37 AM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (Smaay @ Mar 24, 2011 - 10:37 ...   Mar 24, 2011 - 10:05 AM
- - Smaay   True but at least we have them documented now.   Mar 24, 2011 - 6:41 PM
- - Smaay   I got another question, what are you going to use ...   Mar 25, 2011 - 9:01 AM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (Smaay @ Mar 25, 2011 - 10:01 ...   Mar 25, 2011 - 9:42 AM
- - Smaay   are you using the ST205 head? or just wire it so t...   Mar 25, 2011 - 9:40 PM
- - presure2   Of course. Dude, please read the thread, it clear...   Mar 25, 2011 - 10:14 PM
- - Smaay   Dude! there is so much on this forum, i cant k...   Mar 28, 2011 - 10:31 PM
|- - Ted95   QUOTE (Smaay @ Mar 28, 2011 - 11:31 ...   Mar 29, 2011 - 6:00 AM
- - Smaay   i wasnt counting only this thread. there are alot ...   Mar 30, 2011 - 11:29 AM
- - presure2   back from the dead!! this week i got a lo...   Aug 27, 2011 - 7:39 AM
- - freddy121389   Omg..... that's the best looking manifold I...   Aug 27, 2011 - 8:42 AM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (freddy121389 @ Aug 27, 2011 - 9...   Aug 27, 2011 - 9:13 AM
- - SpardaXVII   Loving this build so far.   Aug 28, 2011 - 5:58 PM
- - SwissFerdi   That manifold gives me quite fuzzy feeling. Lookin...   Aug 28, 2011 - 7:55 PM
- - NYp8tBaller07   Very nice build =), I remember there was a guy on ...   Aug 28, 2011 - 8:06 PM
- - presure2   ^^ nice link, looks like hes got some good wiring ...   Aug 31, 2011 - 5:59 PM
- - Cuts_the_Pilot   Yeah good work, thorough walkthrough for people to...   Aug 31, 2011 - 7:04 PM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (Cuts_the_Pilot @ Aug 31, 2011 - 8...   Sep 2, 2011 - 6:24 PM
- - CelicaZR   Good work so far Manny Love it I'll be s...   Aug 31, 2011 - 8:18 PM
- - Soulend   Manny, when you finish this build, please please P...   Sep 2, 2011 - 10:06 PM
- - Ted95   This is going to be wild, cant wait to see it!   Sep 3, 2011 - 12:28 AM
- - SwissFerdi   Awesome work.   Oct 5, 2011 - 11:45 AM
- - bsamps4   Awesome work Manny! How goes the progress? Lo...   Oct 6, 2011 - 7:21 PM
- - stephen_lee   this excites me.   Oct 10, 2011 - 4:17 PM
- - presure2   not much to report yet, i ground down the back of ...   Oct 10, 2011 - 4:51 PM
- - Smaay   post lots of pics!!! tons of pics...   Oct 11, 2011 - 5:18 PM
- - easternpiro1   manny, you are the man. I want to shake your hand ...   Oct 12, 2011 - 2:42 AM
- - presure2   I talked to cam, but he said ya didn't have on...   Oct 12, 2011 - 12:21 PM
|- - easternpiro1   QUOTE (presure2 @ Oct 12, 2011 - 1:2...   Oct 12, 2011 - 11:53 PM
|- - presure2   QUOTE (easternpiro1 @ Oct 13, 2011 - 12...   Oct 13, 2011 - 5:57 AM
- - playr158   Can't control power bias with an EMS. Thats di...   Oct 13, 2011 - 10:11 AM
- - Culpable04   on cars equip'ed with electronically controled...   Oct 13, 2011 - 10:52 AM
- - presure2   The say a pic is worth a thousand words...here are...   Nov 11, 2011 - 1:48 PM
- - stephen_lee   RE: Building a "Big Bore" 5sgte   Nov 11, 2011 - 5:53 PM
|- - KAOS   QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Nov 11, 2011 - 3...   Nov 11, 2011 - 5:58 PM
- - presure2   LMMFAO!! If ya think those were good, wait...   Nov 11, 2011 - 7:03 PM
- - PolliS_5S-FE   Stunning. Long live the 5s   Nov 11, 2011 - 7:57 PM
- - stephen_lee   short stroke, big bore, GE head right? should be v...   Nov 11, 2011 - 8:24 PM
- - Ted95   this is gunna be sweet   Nov 12, 2011 - 1:56 AM
- - presure2   This morning, I got up early, so I decided to asse...   Nov 13, 2011 - 10:21 AM
- - Ted95   RE: Building a "Big Bore" 5sgte   Nov 13, 2011 - 3:14 PM
- - bsamps4   Sex! I bet your thumbs are sore from putting i...   Nov 14, 2011 - 9:09 AM
- - ricochet1490   UPDATE!!   Nov 28, 2011 - 12:57 AM


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