True about GT86... Options

[malpaso]

At last I had chance to test GT86.... Car I hate . I hate it for 200HP and even more for 205 Nm of torque. Also I hate Toyota for their price policy. They sell it here in Europe for $39,000 (base price!!! should be $44,000 for top version) but with the same power as Scion FR-S that is for sale for $23,100 (base price) in the US.

Anyway back to the point. Back to my experience from the last weekend. Now you know I do not like that car so really wanted to see it fall in my eyes . Fortunately I had chance to:

- see drag race between GT86 and Celica GT-S (T23 Sport)
- drive GT86
- "drift" GT86 (drift means to loose grip when cornering for me . I'm not any drifter...)
- talk to other GT, ST Celica drivers and ask about opinion...

...to make as much as unbiased conclusion about GT86.

First what "numbers say". When taking curb weight, power (or torque) and loss between engine and the ground (that is important) for all models of Celica (T20, T23 - all European versions) and GT86, than just converting to percentage value (to easily compare it) you receive some interesting answers. Lets say GT86 is "standard" (100% value) than:

6gen
ST = power 58%, torque 76%
GT = power 80%, torque 85%
GT-Four = power 86%**, torque 103%*
7gen
GT = power 78%, torque 91%**
GT-S = power 94%*, torque 87%

*highest value
**second highest value

From you see above theory say GT-S has no chance to win drag race with GT86 (lower torque means lower ability to start fast enough and almost the same power gives zero chance to catch what GT-S loose with slower acceleration). And reality is exactly as numbers say. I have seen two drag races between GT-S and GT86. Both won by GT86.

Also numbers can help to guess what was experience of other drivers and why in fact just GT-S drivers accepted challenge to race GT86. ST owners were all impressed with GT86. To have suddenly for 40% more power and 25% more torque than they are used to have (especially on rear wheels) knocked them down all . Also GT drivers were not disappointed at all. You can feel those +20% from first moment. No question about this. Also this is reason no one of those wanted to drag race it (there was no point for this).

Numbers also say only at least competitors for GT86 were:

7gen. GT = just slightly lower torque so in case track is short enough and GT86 mess up take off 7gen GT can win. Unfortunately no one tried his luck.
7gen. GT-S = slightly less power in combination with long enough track ...and GT86's messed up take off also gave some chances to win. As I saw not happened. GT86 in both races lead from take off to finish.
6gen. GT-Four = unfortunately none was available around. Any stock GT-Four has higher torque so should lead from the start for 100%. On too long track may loose in the end (thanks to weight and too high loss between engine and wheels). But you never know till you see .

NOTE: Some people may say now: "you were there! You have GT-four so you could race GT86!" No, no... all wrong. I have SS-Four... so I could not . OK, no silly excuses now. Racing with GT86 was pointless with my car. It would be like grizzly bear fighting with raccoon bear. Just to compare above percentage values is my car against GT86: power 128%, torque 159%. That means 30% more power on wheels and for 60% better acceleration than GT86. It would be just about me showing off there...

To driving/"drifting" impressions. Since my feelings are "calibrated" to my car result was exactly what I expected. Not enough power, pitiful torque. Take off is effective (when your ass shakes with behind spinning rear wheels it is always effective ). When trying accelerate from 50mph to 70mph it took ages. It is - no kidding - horrible. Any diesel powered van can accelerate faster! But when cornering (and not controlled by electronic) you can feel the edge when car is sliding and when knot. The most fun is balancing on this edge just by gently playing with gas pedal. You do not need more. Just one leg and smile . Handling of this car is stunning. GT-Four just grips and holding the line. No fun. GT86 is different.

Now I need to slightly re-evaluate my opinion about GT86. I do not hate it as a car anymore (or lets say not that much as before). But but I hate twice more Toyota (as company) for:

a) not make it for 50% stronger/faster (with this price tag) -> make it 300HP/305Nm and I have no issue to pay 40k for it.
b) not selling it for half here (with this power) -> give it price tag 23k (as to Scion in US) and I will say not a single word about power.

End of story .

[doGGy]

I bought it. BOUGHT IT IN USA - and imported over here. and i LOVE it. Love it 10x more then ANY GT-Four. As i said before GT-Four is a boat... boat on water... As FRS is a jetski. Period. GT-four is OK for power - but if we are talking about GT-four - then i would take any GC chasis STi over GT-four ANYTIME.

You can NOT compare GT86 / FRS / BRZ to a GT-four - thats a differnet league car.

Price? well - in EU it is overpriced... but as i imported it from USA - saved round 8K$ So its all good till issues with the Warranty stuff will pop up...

Also - you should not that Base prices starts at 24xxx + TAX! So you get round 27K easily...

And its not even NEAR 7 gen celica... sorry - but 7Gen doesnt even deserve to be called celica IMHO...

[malpaso]

I bought it. BOUGHT IT IN USA - and imported over here. and i LOVE it. Love it 10x more then ANY GT-Four. As i said before GT-Four is a boat... boat on water... As FRS is a jetski. Period. GT-four is OK for power - but if we are talking about GT-four - then i would take any GC chasis STi over GT-four ANYTIME.

You can NOT compare GT86 / FRS / BRZ to a GT-four - thats a differnet league car.

Price? well - in EU it is overpriced... but as i imported it from USA - saved round 8K$ So its all good till issues with the Warranty stuff will pop up...

Also - you should not that Base prices starts at 24xxx + TAX! So you get round 27K easily...

And its not even NEAR 7 gen celica... sorry - but 7Gen doesnt even deserve to be called celica IMHO...

First. Unfortunately Lithuania is not Czech Republic mate. You know how much issues I had registering my car. You say I can not compare GT-four and GT86? I say you can not compare importing a car to LT and to CZ. It is different story.

In terms of my experience... I simply compared NUMBERS based on weight, power, torque and loss between engine and ground. I compare it because comparing DRAG RACE! Not drift race, not circuit, not handling, nothing else. Just ability to drive straight and accelerate (the same way I can compare how fast will brick and metal cube fall to the grown from roof). And since I tried both cars in same situations I really can say how I feel driving it. GT86 is desperately slow car and for price sold in CZ not worth having it. And since I have GT-four... I believe "YES, I can". I can compare GT86 with GT-four as user and say:

I would NEVER swap my car for GT86 (even for half price) but definitely bought its Scion clone if I lived in the US (AT200 & ST204 country) because remember how AT200 feels on road. GT86 has more power than US ST/GT, it is more fun to drive and price is fair enough there. That is only message I wanted to share.

note: In terms of 7gen... anyone knows my opinion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBdyf-5nOsQ (but it is not the point)