True about GT86... Options

[malpaso]

At last I had chance to test GT86.... Car I hate . I hate it for 200HP and even more for 205 Nm of torque. Also I hate Toyota for their price policy. They sell it here in Europe for $39,000 (base price!!! should be $44,000 for top version) but with the same power as Scion FR-S that is for sale for $23,100 (base price) in the US.

Anyway back to the point. Back to my experience from the last weekend. Now you know I do not like that car so really wanted to see it fall in my eyes . Fortunately I had chance to:

- see drag race between GT86 and Celica GT-S (T23 Sport)
- drive GT86
- "drift" GT86 (drift means to loose grip when cornering for me . I'm not any drifter...)
- talk to other GT, ST Celica drivers and ask about opinion...

...to make as much as unbiased conclusion about GT86.

First what "numbers say". When taking curb weight, power (or torque) and loss between engine and the ground (that is important) for all models of Celica (T20, T23 - all European versions) and GT86, than just converting to percentage value (to easily compare it) you receive some interesting answers. Lets say GT86 is "standard" (100% value) than:

6gen
ST = power 58%, torque 76%
GT = power 80%, torque 85%
GT-Four = power 86%**, torque 103%*
7gen
GT = power 78%, torque 91%**
GT-S = power 94%*, torque 87%

*highest value
**second highest value

From you see above theory say GT-S has no chance to win drag race with GT86 (lower torque means lower ability to start fast enough and almost the same power gives zero chance to catch what GT-S loose with slower acceleration). And reality is exactly as numbers say. I have seen two drag races between GT-S and GT86. Both won by GT86.

Also numbers can help to guess what was experience of other drivers and why in fact just GT-S drivers accepted challenge to race GT86. ST owners were all impressed with GT86. To have suddenly for 40% more power and 25% more torque than they are used to have (especially on rear wheels) knocked them down all . Also GT drivers were not disappointed at all. You can feel those +20% from first moment. No question about this. Also this is reason no one of those wanted to drag race it (there was no point for this).

Numbers also say only at least competitors for GT86 were:

7gen. GT = just slightly lower torque so in case track is short enough and GT86 mess up take off 7gen GT can win. Unfortunately no one tried his luck.
7gen. GT-S = slightly less power in combination with long enough track ...and GT86's messed up take off also gave some chances to win. As I saw not happened. GT86 in both races lead from take off to finish.
6gen. GT-Four = unfortunately none was available around. Any stock GT-Four has higher torque so should lead from the start for 100%. On too long track may loose in the end (thanks to weight and too high loss between engine and wheels). But you never know till you see .

NOTE: Some people may say now: "you were there! You have GT-four so you could race GT86!" No, no... all wrong. I have SS-Four... so I could not . OK, no silly excuses now. Racing with GT86 was pointless with my car. It would be like grizzly bear fighting with raccoon bear. Just to compare above percentage values is my car against GT86: power 128%, torque 159%. That means 30% more power on wheels and for 60% better acceleration than GT86. It would be just about me showing off there...

To driving/"drifting" impressions. Since my feelings are "calibrated" to my car result was exactly what I expected. Not enough power, pitiful torque. Take off is effective (when your ass shakes with behind spinning rear wheels it is always effective ). When trying accelerate from 50mph to 70mph it took ages. It is - no kidding - horrible. Any diesel powered van can accelerate faster! But when cornering (and not controlled by electronic) you can feel the edge when car is sliding and when knot. The most fun is balancing on this edge just by gently playing with gas pedal. You do not need more. Just one leg and smile . Handling of this car is stunning. GT-Four just grips and holding the line. No fun. GT86 is different.

Now I need to slightly re-evaluate my opinion about GT86. I do not hate it as a car anymore (or lets say not that much as before). But but I hate twice more Toyota (as company) for:

a) not make it for 50% stronger/faster (with this price tag) -> make it 300HP/305Nm and I have no issue to pay 40k for it.
b) not selling it for half here (with this power) -> give it price tag 23k (as to Scion in US) and I will say not a single word about power.

End of story .

[doGGy]

Martin - if you spent week driving GT86 - we could talk then - and you COULD compare cars by then... But after few Km's - its crazy a bit to give opinion.... And if you are only driving in straight line - then you need a dragster then....

I felt in love with this car round after 500miles... First 200 was like hmmm whats so special about it? But later on - you find all the small details about driving, steering, drifting - and theres more then enouth of power to get you from point A to B with enouth of fun and smile.

Later this week - we will have BRZ drive on our local track with profesional driver. it will be REALLY nice to compare time of it to GT-Four and SSIII (Martynas car with ~300hp and Vidmantas SSIII) and see how much difference will be...

[malpaso]

Martin - if you spent week driving GT86 - we could talk then - and you COULD compare cars by then... But after few Km's - its crazy a bit to give opinion.... And if you are only driving in straight line - then you need a dragster then....

I felt in love with this car round after 500miles... First 200 was like hmmm whats so special about it? But later on - you find all the small details about driving, steering, drifting - and theres more then enouth of power to get you from point A to B with enouth of fun and smile.

Later this week - we will have BRZ drive on our local track with profesional driver. it will be REALLY nice to compare time of it to GT-Four and SSIII (Martynas car with ~300hp and Vidmantas SSIII) and see how much difference will be...

I fully understand your excitement mate (not just because you bought it ). It meets your needs. I also understand excitement of everyone (all GT/ST drivers) I talked to after test ride "how great car it is". I only wish you respect my option, my priories and expectations plus the way I created it.

- I already wrote local people are 6gen Celica enthusiasts = I tried to approximate my experience to Celicas we all know (not to any other brand/car).
- I have seen drag race between two GT-S and result was clear. Supported by numbers = clean mathematic explanation (just facts) proving it was not just because of "bad driver".
- NOTHING ELSE but drag race can be compared by numbers. Just drag race. That is why comparing JUST DRAG RACE. Not any other activity.
- When I sit into GT86 I just simulated one thing: Driving normal speed (line in any public road) and than suddenly accelerating +20 km per hour (like overtaking other car). The thing I need every day driving my car on the road. Simple thing common for any other car. Nothing special. Result was horrible. Even diesel van can overtake faster.

I do not need drift every day, make donuts with the car everyday or drive on the edge on twisty roads (like on circuit) every day. I want - every day - to overtake car FAST when I need it. That is why just this simple test was enough (in terms of every day used acceleration compared with my car = fat old ST205).

Plus. When thinking about one fiction "chance to swap my car for GT86". No money in advance paid (or got ). Just swap it. I need to count my personal priorities and expectations from a car into consideration and try to match it with ST205 or GT86 (first three are simply mandatory with top priority):

basic condition: I do not have salary to keep two cars = I need to pick just one.

- I like to take my family (that means fit into car more than two people + luggage for three people) and drive thousands of miles with it.
- I like to enjoy high passes (12% elevation if you need example) with loaded car as described below and not end behind RV for miles because not am able to overtake it.
- I want be able to ride with more than one passenger in the car for more than 100miles with at least minimum comfort provided to all (they can keep their both legs for example). Yes I'm talking about ability to sit on rear seats when they are already there available.
- I want keep my car on the road even during winter (ice & snow on road is normal here for many months).
- I like to move occasionally things if needed (for example baby carriage, 250000 cc vivarium for my python, bike, shopping bags, new TV, four spare tires...)
- I like from time to time to take my car to circuit. Just enjoy fast driving.
- I do not drift. I like when car grips not drifts in corners (so yes I like boring cars).
- I like to keep in the car some "useless" things all the time (1liter of engine oil, extinguisher, some tools for possible emergency repairs, spare washer liquid, umbrella, infant carrier... etc) and not feel bad it is weight in advance that is possibly slowing me down.

In short I want sports car that can be used in normal life. ST205 meets all to the letter. GT86 is not... Damn is not.

I hope you understand what I am talking about. I really believe you are happy with GT86 and you had reason buying it (and that reason was not lower price because of importing it). Just please try to understand there are other points of view comparing the car and not everyone has the same "scale", "angle of vision", "abilities" (call it however) as you do.

This post has been edited by malpaso: Oct 1, 2012 - 11:02 AM