True about GT86... Options

[malpaso]

At last I had chance to test GT86.... Car I hate . I hate it for 200HP and even more for 205 Nm of torque. Also I hate Toyota for their price policy. They sell it here in Europe for $39,000 (base price!!! should be $44,000 for top version) but with the same power as Scion FR-S that is for sale for $23,100 (base price) in the US.

Anyway back to the point. Back to my experience from the last weekend. Now you know I do not like that car so really wanted to see it fall in my eyes . Fortunately I had chance to:

- see drag race between GT86 and Celica GT-S (T23 Sport)
- drive GT86
- "drift" GT86 (drift means to loose grip when cornering for me . I'm not any drifter...)
- talk to other GT, ST Celica drivers and ask about opinion...

...to make as much as unbiased conclusion about GT86.

First what "numbers say". When taking curb weight, power (or torque) and loss between engine and the ground (that is important) for all models of Celica (T20, T23 - all European versions) and GT86, than just converting to percentage value (to easily compare it) you receive some interesting answers. Lets say GT86 is "standard" (100% value) than:

6gen
ST = power 58%, torque 76%
GT = power 80%, torque 85%
GT-Four = power 86%**, torque 103%*
7gen
GT = power 78%, torque 91%**
GT-S = power 94%*, torque 87%

*highest value
**second highest value

From you see above theory say GT-S has no chance to win drag race with GT86 (lower torque means lower ability to start fast enough and almost the same power gives zero chance to catch what GT-S loose with slower acceleration). And reality is exactly as numbers say. I have seen two drag races between GT-S and GT86. Both won by GT86.

Also numbers can help to guess what was experience of other drivers and why in fact just GT-S drivers accepted challenge to race GT86. ST owners were all impressed with GT86. To have suddenly for 40% more power and 25% more torque than they are used to have (especially on rear wheels) knocked them down all . Also GT drivers were not disappointed at all. You can feel those +20% from first moment. No question about this. Also this is reason no one of those wanted to drag race it (there was no point for this).

Numbers also say only at least competitors for GT86 were:

7gen. GT = just slightly lower torque so in case track is short enough and GT86 mess up take off 7gen GT can win. Unfortunately no one tried his luck.
7gen. GT-S = slightly less power in combination with long enough track ...and GT86's messed up take off also gave some chances to win. As I saw not happened. GT86 in both races lead from take off to finish.
6gen. GT-Four = unfortunately none was available around. Any stock GT-Four has higher torque so should lead from the start for 100%. On too long track may loose in the end (thanks to weight and too high loss between engine and wheels). But you never know till you see .

NOTE: Some people may say now: "you were there! You have GT-four so you could race GT86!" No, no... all wrong. I have SS-Four... so I could not . OK, no silly excuses now. Racing with GT86 was pointless with my car. It would be like grizzly bear fighting with raccoon bear. Just to compare above percentage values is my car against GT86: power 128%, torque 159%. That means 30% more power on wheels and for 60% better acceleration than GT86. It would be just about me showing off there...

To driving/"drifting" impressions. Since my feelings are "calibrated" to my car result was exactly what I expected. Not enough power, pitiful torque. Take off is effective (when your ass shakes with behind spinning rear wheels it is always effective ). When trying accelerate from 50mph to 70mph it took ages. It is - no kidding - horrible. Any diesel powered van can accelerate faster! But when cornering (and not controlled by electronic) you can feel the edge when car is sliding and when knot. The most fun is balancing on this edge just by gently playing with gas pedal. You do not need more. Just one leg and smile . Handling of this car is stunning. GT-Four just grips and holding the line. No fun. GT86 is different.

Now I need to slightly re-evaluate my opinion about GT86. I do not hate it as a car anymore (or lets say not that much as before). But but I hate twice more Toyota (as company) for:

a) not make it for 50% stronger/faster (with this price tag) -> make it 300HP/305Nm and I have no issue to pay 40k for it.
b) not selling it for half here (with this power) -> give it price tag 23k (as to Scion in US) and I will say not a single word about power.

End of story .

[doGGy]

Martin -

I want - every day - to overtake car FAST when I need it. That is why just this simple test was enough (in terms of every day used acceleration compared with my car = fat old ST205).

You really AINT DROVE it then. Really. Or drove it till 4K rpm in 6 gear... ever heard about Downshift? ... Fun starts at 5500rpm and last till very 7400 easily And once you in next gear - it aint over Just cant read what you are trying to say about this car - cuz 80% of this isnt true... (i know that in your GT4 its a DIFERENT story - you dont need to downshift - you need to find some BOOOOOOst ) And once you in next gear - it aint over Just cant read what you are trying to say about this car - cuz 80% of this isnt true...

Yes - GT4 is FAST. BUT - take the stock GT4 - and it would be close race between these 2. Stock GT4 and GT86 = GT86 would whop GT4's ass on ANY track - thats period. You are used to 350hp+ car - and THIS IS why it feels 'slow' for you... And to be honest - GT4 is not much more spacier Reading your description - it looks like GT86 is somthing like a Polski Fiat and your GT4 is Cadillac Devile..

About drift / grip - GT86 / FRS - with RIGHT combination tires pulled 1G in cornering test - now go figure... Really - dont JUDGE this car if you aint experienced it. And you picked WRONG car to compare it to... Really If you are trying to WRITE YOUR thoughts WHY YOU DONT NEED GT86 - then name this topic right then

In short I want sports car that can be used in normal life. ST205 meets all to the letter. GT86 is not... Damn is not.

No it doesnt. ST205 is 2 door, has a tiny trunk, not comfortible at all and so on - i can go day and night if you want. If you need a SPORTS car that can be used daily - get a STi, a FREAKING STi - it will be a 4 door (so you will be able to put a kid seat in it too!) it will have a NORMAL trunk! and you will be able to put a Roof rack on it also! And it will be atleast 10 times MORE fun to drive then ST205! Try it - and you will see! Dont close your eye to other options - and strap your self to freaking ST205 - cuz its not the worlds number 1 car at all

And YES - GT86 is a sports car for a NORMAL life - exept what you call a NORMAL life? For me NORMAL life - is havinga car that it was designed for - Daily - cheap / realible / low fuel consumption. Weekend - get what you want - cuz its YOUR weekend / free time toy!

I just have a NORMAL family car. By NORMAL i mean NORMAL - wich is economical, diesel (low end torque), spacy (i can carry LOTS OF THINGS at ONE TIME lol - not one thing from your list one time ) and its called Corolla Verso.And i DONT need to RACE / drag race with my family / friends on board... GT86 is my toy to play around, and then im playing - i DONT NEED 3 more people to be in my car Because i enjoy playing alone - and be responsible for my own life GT86 is ment to be LEGO in reall life. You are buing a BASE for a tune-up. Everything else - is just you imagination. It will be super fun car on the snow (not like oversized GT4 pig that all it does - understeers in EVERY corner...). GT86 is a bit histerical with its back end, but with the right setup (shocks / swaybars) it will be super smooth in the corners even in the wet / snow. Cant wait to be honest to try it out in winter....

This post has been edited by doGGy: Oct 1, 2012 - 2:21 PM