Gogo's Tent, Got a motor. Lots of work to do. Options

[H8TRAIN]

Latest Update: Engine bay ready. Looking for an engine.

Update: Got engine out. Must be beginners luck.

Gogo has a tent.





It's not much but I'm lucky Gogo even has a tent. By this stage in my life I probably could have a garage with an S2000 or a restored 300ZX in it. But I don't. Life's not a fairytale and we don't always get what we want. I've never had a garage of my own. One day I will. But I'm tired of waiting for that day to stop talking cars and start doing cars.

As luck would have it, I currently have access to a sideyard! It's not too level but it's paved. And there's a small toolshed. I can put a damn tent up, scatter some tools about and it'll be like a garage. Close enough, anyway.

So all I needed was a car to start on. I chose a Toyota Celica because it was in Sega Rally Championship back in 1995 when things were good. I found one only 100 miles away with a freshly blown motor. I rented a car dolly and towed it home. This the first time I have ever dragged a car behind a truck. I was nervous about every step of it because I had never done it. After learning that is quite impossible to back up a tow dolly, my friends helped me push the Celica up and into the sideyard.







It's a 95 5spd GT. I named it Gogo. And put up a harbor freight portable garage - I like to call it a tent - over Gogo.







I have never changed an axle. I have never changed a clutch. I have never inspected a distributor. Never used a timing lite, or a bearing puller. I am a complete novice mechanic. I hate that. The point of this project is to change that. It's working already. For example: I didn't know what a wiring harness was or what one looked like. That changed quickly on Friday when I ripped the ugly mother****er out with my own two hands. Now I know.




6GC, I'm very impressed with your knowledge and your community. I joined the site because I want help. Me and Gogo both want your help.




This post has been edited by H8TRAIN: Jan 20, 2014 - 10:50 PM

[DST94]

Hey, good to have you on here my man! Shade tent mechanic at its best!
First move if I were you.

Get some books and make a plan.
If you can get your hands on the Factory Toyota Repair Manuals do it, it will save your life as many times as it has mine. And please. Please. Please. PLEASE. make a plan. Decide on what you want before you start shopping so you dont end up changing your direction a thousand times and dropping way too much money on GoGo. Decide on coils, BEAMS, interior, sound, kit, and paint. (for example) then organize a plan to get that done. If you need help we are always here. Im down in Oceanside, CA so, depending on distance, i could help you out personally. Keep us updated and you can never do enough research! (stickies hint hint)

[H8TRAIN]

Thank you, DST. My plan for almost all of the car is simple and set. But I got cold feet about my engine choice sometime last week. I want a 3rd gen 3sge. A strong 5sfe would be fine... but I want the 3sge. I just want it. However living in cali, I started to get unsure about jdm swaps. Stil on the fence. ;p

My planned build is 90% oem style. Pretty tame compared to alot of the Celicas on this board. The main point of this venture is not as much to end up with an outstanding tuner car but to challenge my mechanical skills. My ultimate car goal is to build something really intense. But I've got to start somewhere!

Update Edit:

I've been working on removing the engine carefully so as to become familiar with it. With the help of a chilton manual, this website and a good friend of mine who is a nominally more skilled mechanic, I have removed the following in this order so far:

1. Airbox up to throttle.
2. Strut bar and engine undercovers
3. Radiator
4. Alternator
5. Exhaust manifold/bpipe/precat & main cat
6. Ac Pump unbolter and zipped to front of bay
7. Throttle cable
8. Engine harness seperated from fuse box and pulled from firewall
9. Most engine harness plugs and grounds
10. Axles out
11. PS return line & pressure line
12. Clutch line
13. Heater hoses
14. Shift cables
15. Fuel supply line from top of filter

Cruise control came out at some point. Looks like I forgot to log it!

I'm taking a break now. Lots of gas fumes from the fuel line. Need some fresh air. The engine is not original and the fact that it was replaced (and not very well) is making for easy removal of the various hoses lines and clips.

Next I guess I need to find the fuel return line. And speedo cable maybe. Maybe I'll try the front and rear mounts after I dunno. If I could lift out the motor tomorrow that would be great. In episode 2 of the 6gc podcast, presure2 recalls specifically how to go about lifting the motor out. Very illuminating. Information that I'm sure will save me hours.

Update:

hmm. Need a few things.



This post has been edited by H8TRAIN: Nov 9, 2013 - 8:41 PM

[H8TRAIN]

HOLY CRAP




This morning (Saturday) I still felt like I had alot to do if I wanted to pull the motor tomorrow (Sunday). So I rolled up my sleeves and got to it. My friend came by to see how things were going. When I explained that "I thought" everything was disconnected, he insisted on pulling the motor right then.

The mounts came out easy enough. When it came to picking the motor, We followed presure2's description from ep2 of the podcast exactly. It went smoothly. I was suprised that I didn't forget to disconnect one hose, plug or accessory. I did go rather carefully, and it paid off that way. The ground was not level, so it took some extra shoving around, but everything was a success.

Huge thanks to countless posts from all of you here at 6gc. The biggest job I had ever done on a car was to change the filter in an automatic trans. By searching this site, I was able to find the detailed information to make many steps of this much much easier and more fun.

This post has been edited by H8TRAIN: Nov 10, 2013 - 4:09 AM

[JoshuaM]

Awesome work... you've jumped right in the deep end and you're still swimming!

Edit: Lol, just scrolled to the top to go back to the projects forum link and noticed that ^ is what you called your thread

This post has been edited by JoshuaM: Nov 10, 2013 - 7:44 AM

[H8TRAIN]

I've been cleaning up the bay and hem-hawing over used engines.

Need help: The third gen 3sge swap... Many people talking about how easy it is... nobody saying how to do it. At least, I've had no luck with my searching on this site. Maybe it's so easy that there's nothing to know? If anyone could hook me up with a link to wiring tips for the 3rd gen 3sge into 94/95 celica gt that would be hugely appreciated. I have read in several places, (and heard presure2 say it on the first episode of the podcast) that wiring the 3rd gen 3sge is a matter of "re-pinning 7 or 8 wires on the body harness. Which wires tho? between this site and several others I turn up nothing.

After hearing about mr220v and his services many times, I found out that he actually has a company and a website called WireGap Inc www.wiregapinc.com. Nice site, too!

[SwissFerdi]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t79433.html

[H8TRAIN]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t79433.html

Thank you!!!!

[presure2]

hahahahaha that is so awesome!!!!
i am so very glad that you were able to listen to the podcast, at it actually helped you complete your goal!!!!!
absolutly ****ing awesome!!!
congrats, dude!

[H8TRAIN]

The podcast was very helpful. See, the guy who helped me pull it out was not a mechanic. He moves sculptures for a living. So he had a laugh when I was concerned about hoisting a mere 500 pounds. Slant of the ground and lack of space and everything, he was like "No Problem".

I set up the chain on the hooks exactly like you described and he was skeptical of what he called "the pick". When I got out the jack to use for underneath he realized what was going to happen and he admitted "that's the right pick". 4-5 links on front side, 14-15 on the tranny side, just like you said. That first couple episodes of the podcast are weirdly timely and convenient for me to find.

By the way! At the end of the first episode you suggest that the cheapest, easiest worthwile swap is a 3rd gen 3sge. You when thru it kind of quickly I think you said , and I'm paraphrasing here: "badda bing badda boom and it's done.". Anyhow, that sounded very interesting to me so I went off to research it and I can't find anything! Is it so simple that there's nothing to explain? I broke down and asked for a link. SwissFerdi came up with a very good thread about the 3rd gen ge swap but does not yet cover getting the motor in and running. I know it's a matter of re-pinning a few wires and that's all. Just can't find the info. If I end up doing it I'll make sure to make a guide and give back. With good pictures not that junk I have up there. That's if I end up doing 3sge. My options are wide open. Tell you what, I'll contribute back something to the knowledge of the site no matter what motor I get.

[Rusty]

Just making sure as I'm a bit confused 3rd Gen 3S-GTE(turbo)/ 3S-GE(NA) swap?

[H8TRAIN]

The Atmo.



For a 3rd gen 3sge, I'd be willing to put up with some trouble. It would give me a little trouble because I'm in California and I need special consideration to register a car with any jdm engine. A 2nd gen 3sge would not be too bad. In fact because of its parts availability and interchangeability, a 2nd gen would be better in some ways.

If I don't get a 3sge, I would be happy to turbocharge a 5s or 3sfe to achieve my modest power goal. It would be alot of fun to assemble a turbo system. Not to mention that the turbo could go on after the car is running and the body is straightened out.

Update: I founf this post from 99gt3sge:

you can use your 3s harness, i did a swap for my friend using a 3rd gen 3sge non beams with his original 5sfe harness, i had to wire up two injectors, re-pin the dizzy, and re-pin the ecu plugs to run the ge ecu. and extended some of the tb plugs and wire in the acis solenoid. it's not as easy as wiring a honda but it's very doable.

If he did it with a 5s harness then maybe it so easy it's not worth documenting.

This post has been edited by H8TRAIN: Nov 19, 2013 - 12:18 AM

[H8TRAIN]

Engine bay is clean enough for me. I tried a pressure washer on the bay under covers out on the lawn and decided I did not want to do that to my car in the tent. Flings crap everywhere. So I just got down and elbow greased it for here and there for the seven days that went by after pulling the motor. On sunday I considered it good enough.




So it's wednesday now. I would like to purchase an engine, and I consider the 3sge and 5sfe to both be viable options so that I can be ready for a deal. I feel like I'm lacking some knowledge tho. And I'd like to ask the forum a question about the price of the 5sfe motors.

How cheap are they really? I've seen countless posts about getting them for really cheap. "You can get a 5sfe for $250 easily if you look around", is the sort of thing I'm reading here and there. I don't know how accurate this kind of statement is or what quality of used engine this price reflects.

The 5sfe's I look at are 600-700 dollars for a longblock from jdm importers. These look very clean and in general so signs of having much life ahead of them. This is the condition I want for any engine to go in the car. Is it easy to get a "nice" 5sfe for 250 dollars or just beat out high mileage ones? If it's so easy where do I ask? Swap shops? WTB in the fs forums?

[enderswift]

If only you weren't in california...

pm bonzai and try to figure out how he managed to smog a 3sge beams in cali. It would be a shame to only install a 5s after you've gone through all this work

[ClevelandGaint]

Congratulations on the pulling the motor and jumping right in, everyone has to start some where, keep up the good work and let us know if you run into any problems

[H8TRAIN]

If only you weren't in california...

pm bonzai and try to figure out how he managed to smog a 3sge beams in cali. It would be a shame to only install a 5s after you've gone through all this work

Amen.

Since shortly before I got the engine out almost 2 weeks ago, I've been working on this conundrum. I've been feverishly researching and picking the brains of people on via internet and phone. Trying to get an understanding of what it's like to live with a jdm swap in california. I have learned alot. I have learned that it is possible. And there is more than one way to skin the cat. None of them will result in you happily motoring every day without a care in the world that you may end up with an unsmoggable car or a useless engine.

I'm willing to have the slightly unpleasant experience of taking special care of special details come smog time. I'm willing to have that experience so that I can enjoy a 3sge for 2 years at a time. I really want a 3SGE.



I need that sound. In my life. DAILY.

If I don't end up with a 3sge, my fallback plan would be to get an fe type and build a turbo system around the unopened motors. That would be satisfying and someday I really would like to turbo charge a factory atmo engine, but the 3sge better suits my goals for Gogo.

[H8TRAIN]

Well I'm still looking for a motor. I can pick up from a few different importers around here so I can save 300 bucks compared to shipped motors. Plus I can inspect them.

So locally, there are no 3rd gens. There are several beams sets. There's a greytop set (no trans) for 500. That price cannot be ignored. I' off work early today and was hoping to go pick one up but it would be cutting it a little close on time to do that.

Off to do beams research.

[richee3]

The Greytop is certainly the cheapest of the BEAMS, and is mechanically identical to the Redtop. However, as I found out the hard way, the wiring harness is the MR2 style instead of the Celica style. Mr220v's wiring services can make the harness work for you but depending on his price you may be just as well off to buy a Redtop to begin with. The Greytop can be brought up to Redtop specs by simply replacing the header with a Redtop header, as the Greytop has a catalytic converter built in. You'll read all over 6gc.net that parts for the BEAMS are impossible to get here in the States- this is simply not true at all. 90% of any parts you will ever need for it can be purchased here. However, you need to be aware that the BEAMS has 200 hp- not bad- but it's all very close to its 7,250 rpm redline. Below 4,500 rpm, it's not much different than a 5S-FE, nothing exciting at all. I loved my BEAMS at first, and I still think it's great fun, but unfortunately I do not live on a racetrack where I can keep the engine at redline all the time, so I have made the choice to pull my BEAMS out and go with a different engine. Just something to keep in mind, if you very seldom ever redline.

[H8TRAIN]

The Greytop is certainly the cheapest of the BEAMS, and is mechanically identical to the Redtop. However, as I found out the hard way, the wiring harness is the MR2 style instead of the Celica style. Mr220v's wiring services can make the harness work for you but depending on his price you may be just as well off to buy a Redtop to begin with. The Greytop can be brought up to Redtop specs by simply replacing the header with a Redtop header, as the Greytop has a catalytic converter built in. You'll read all over 6gc.net that parts for the BEAMS are impossible to get here in the States- this is simply not true at all. 90% of any parts you will ever need for it can be purchased here. However, you need to be aware that the BEAMS has 200 hp- not bad- but it's all very close to its 7,250 rpm redline. Below 4,500 rpm, it's not much different than a 5S-FE, nothing exciting at all. I loved my BEAMS at first, and I still think it's great fun, but unfortunately I do not live on a racetrack where I can keep the engine at redline all the time, so I have made the choice to pull my BEAMS out and go with a different engine. Just something to keep in mind, if you very seldom ever redline.

Oh I love high rpms. Ruins People's Motors! Love em. I want an engine that loves them, too.

The catalytic converter the greytop come with is actually quite desirable to me. I just talked to m220v and he quoted me a price for the plug n play harness for the greytop. It was a fair but not insignificant price. The redtop could be a better deal if I do the wiring. Is it as easy as yall say it is? Hey maybe I should buy yours? =p

[bsamps4]

I'm not going to lie... I didn't know what to expect from your build at first, but I've got to say I'm very impressed, and hope she becomes everything you wish for. I appreciate your bold approach and wish you the best with the build!