Project sound insulation, Determined to get rid of some road noise Options

[Galcobar]

The original purpose of the Frost King is to insulate HVAC ducting, so it will definately help with in-car HVAC. That Corvette discussion/how-to is what actually got me into using it in the first place.

The link's on the first page of this thread, though it seems to be defunct now. Here's the same how-to, looks like Mercury moved sites: http://tim-yvonne.com/mikemercury/sound.htm

This post has been edited by Galcobar: Aug 25, 2012 - 3:52 PM

[Red123]

is it worth to install Frost King material on a 95 gt4?
actually on the door panels.

[The_enD]

is it worth to install Frost King material on a 95 gt4?
actually on the door panels.

Explain how the material looks or works and I can try to help.

[Red123]

is it worth to install Frost King material on a 95 gt4?
actually on the door panels.

Explain how the material looks or works and I can try to help.

Thanks. I dont know. here's the link
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-E-O-...FV516/100028603

[The_enD]

As described the product will isolate the door from weather conditions and reduce vibration, but it's best to be added to the door's sheet metal, not cards.
What effect are you looking for? There are three types of reduction: road noise, vibration of body panels and their resonance, interior rattle.

[Red123]

As described the product will isolate the door from weather conditions and reduce vibration, but it's best to be added to the door's sheet metal, not cards.
What effect are you looking for? There are three types of reduction: road noise, vibration of body panels and their resonance, interior rattle.

I want to remove a sound insulation from on a door panels. if it would be ok, I'll try to install that on a carpet too. maybe I'll try.

This post has been edited by Red123: Jan 27, 2014 - 6:40 PM

[The_enD]

I cannot understand you

[Red123]

I cannot understand you

I mean sound insulation on a door panels, maybe on a carpet later.

[The_enD]

Put the sound deadener under the carpet, directly on the metal.
A very good site to read and buy http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

[Galcobar]

As described the product will isolate the door from weather conditions and reduce vibration, but it's best to be added to the door's sheet metal, not cards.
What effect are you looking for? There are three types of reduction: road noise, vibration of body panels and their resonance, interior rattle.

I want to remove a sound insulation from on a door panels. if it would be ok, I'll try to install that on a carpet too. maybe I'll try.

Choose the source of the sound you want to reduce. The product you choose to install depends on the type of noise you want to reduce.

The FrostKing is good at blocking outside noise from entering the car -- noise from tires, other cars, and to some extent the wind. It is a foam (absorbs noise) backed by foil (reflects the sound waves), best applied to the exterior panels. FrostKing/Thermwell does little to reduce the vibration of body panels, and very little to improve speaker performance. The point of using FrostKing is to make the inside of the car quieter.

If you read the entire thread, you will see it can be used through the entire interior of the car.

[The_enD]

I have to disagree with you. Upon further investigation, the weight of Frost king is around 12 times lesser than the weight of a proper sound blocking material (1lb/12ft²). And you need mass to block noise, around 1lb per ft².
To me this product has no application in cars.

[skogs]

I have to disagree with you. Upon further investigation, the weight of Frost king is around 12 times lesser than the weight of a proper sound blocking material (1lb/12ft²). And you need mass to block noise, around 1lb per ft².
To me this product has no application in cars.

How can you say that it has no application in cars when so many people have gotten so good results? Is it because it is supposed to be for something else? To me this product seems to be a classic case of 80% of the effect for 20% the price.

[The_enD]

There are better products suited for in car installation.
Adding any type of insulation material will yield results since OEM the car is not threated very good and at places there is no deadener at all. This is not a high end luxury vehicle, it's a sporty looking car where price is a concern.
The question is is it worth it at the end, when you can buy products that were designed just for that specific purpose and not for pipes, air ducts and roofs.
There is a huge difference between a properly done car, threated with all three types of deadener, and a car done with some inferior products.

[stephen_lee]

I have to say the frost king DID improve sound isolation.

not nearly as quiet as my LS400 but for the 10lbs or so i added to do the WHOLE car, definitely a good trade off.

but YES, something else may do a better job, it will also be heavier.

it also reduces heat transfer

[skogs]

I know that there are better products when it comes to sound dampening. But in our cars where weight and price is a concern, frost king definatly has an application.

[The_enD]

For me weight is not a concern, it's a daily car, not a track car.
Neither is price, I prefer to spend more money and do it properly and have much better results.

[skogs]

Then frostking has no application in your car:)

But with 1/12 the weight, a fraction of the cost and still good results it's a pretty good deal for most people.

[Galcobar]

Open cell foam backed by foil is also the preferred means of noise insulation for airplanes. It's used on ducting not nearly so much for heat blocking as for noise -- it's not meant as a vibration dampener.

Mass loading is good at stopping a panel from vibrating, which is absolutely necessary when the source of the noise/vibration is the vehicle itself (either the engine, the body shaking or sound system). It is much less necessary when you're attempting to stop exterior noise from entering the vehicle, in large part because the vibration of the panel from transmitted sound waves is so much weaker. For road noise absorption is almost as effective as mass dampening, without the weight penalty.

If the additional mass, the loss of performance, the degraded fuel economy and the higher cost are irrelevant to your goals, then yes the Frost King is not a suitable product for your application. However, saying it is never a suitable product ignores the fact that it's designed for precisely this task -- absorption and reflection of an external noise source -- which has led to FAA certification for use in airplanes, and the success others have experienced with it.

Better or worse depends upon the goal.

[The_enD]

Open cell foam backed by foil is also the preferred means of noise insulation for airplanes. It's used on ducting not nearly so much for heat blocking as for noise -- it's not meant as a vibration dampener.

Using open cell foam in a car is not preferred as it will absorb water which may lead to rust and smell. Even tho the car is fairly insulated from the outside world, water still penetrates through the doors and moisture in the air.
Not to mention open cell will simply fold in, if there is any pressure applied to it, lessening it's effectiveness.

Mass loading is good at stopping a panel from vibrating, which is absolutely necessary when the source of the noise/vibration is the vehicle itself (either the engine, the body shaking or sound system). It is much less necessary when you're attempting to stop exterior noise from entering the vehicle, in large part because the vibration of the panel from transmitted sound waves is so much weaker. For road noise absorption is almost as effective as mass dampening, without the weight penalty.

There is a difference between mass loading a panel and mass loaded sheeting.
You don't want your panels vibrating, because that creates noise due to the panel resonating. This is where CLD(Constraint Layer Vibration Damper) tiles come to work. They control resonance, which leads to noise. You can't control resonance with a lightweight foam that effectively.
Just driving down the road creates vibrations through out the whole body of the car.

If the additional mass, the loss of performance, the degraded fuel economy and the higher cost are irrelevant to your goals, then yes the Frost King is not a suitable product for your application. However, saying it is never a suitable product ignores the fact that it's designed for precisely this task -- absorption and reflection of an external noise source -- which has led to FAA certification for use in airplanes, and the success others have experienced with it.

Better or worse depends upon the goal.

Adding maybe around 20-30 kilograms of sound deadening material is not going to affect the vehicle performance or fuel economy to a point that it will be noticeable. If that's the case people should stop filling up their 60 liter gas tank full, keep their trunk always empty and never drive their children in the back, cause you know, they add weight. Not to mention a grown up person in the passenger seat.
I may have been too harsh when it comes to Frost King, but it's just that there are far better materials for the purpose. I personally like to do thing properly, with product each designed and tested for the purpose of it's use. This is where I will spend my money and time. I won't spend many hours removing interior carpet and panels just to add a inferior material knowing there is something better, even tho more expensive, but will yield a much greater final result.

I suggest you read all the information on this site I posted above:
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
and the same info, just compacted.
http://store.secondskinaudio.com/

Both a proven companies for sound insulation for cars.

[skogs]

I really agree with you that when you are going through all this work with the sound dampening, you might as well use proper materials. But for many people 30kg is alot, especially with a such a light and slightly underpowered car as an st. Having my gf versus a heavy dude as a passanger was very noticable with my 7afe.

I will probably use "silent coat" everywhere in my gt4. With its 2mm thickness i will be able to get a seamless coverage of the entire car. 3kg per kg is not to bad, and with 300hk it will definatly not be noticable.