"whatever" swaped st205, which motor would worthy replace a 3sgte? Options

[BonzaiCelica]

this thread is useless and will be closed any second now

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jun 20, 2014 - 1:53 PM

[Box]

It's not entirely useless, and there's no one ripping out anyone else's throats so I don't see it being closed. The 1MZ/3MZ and 2GR are feasible. Also I came back to add an entirely plausible option; Get a 5S block and strengthen the internals for a 2.2L 3S-GTE.

[underground_desi...]

Since there are more than one cars with that kind of swaps I dont't find it useless.
It's a conversation that may help some people built a better car. like kurts v6 celica and other 5s celicas.
I have seen a local old lexus running a 1uz v8 with 0.4 of boost with stock internals.
The owner used it as a drift car and won several races on the local championship against fully built monsters and the 1uz was completely stock. Just a turbo kit attached on it.
He said that the 1uz has semiforged internals that can handle boost till 1bar!!! I'm not sure about that but the car was on track for several years till the regulations changed and he built another car accordingly to new regulations.
He was abusing and racing that engine like there's no tomorow. the engine had put 420whp/5800, 650nm/3500. (0.42 bar)

Back at the point.
It would be interesting to put a turbo v8 on the celica.
The cost would be
-a complete 1-uz swap for 1500 to 2000 euro.
-custom mounts for the engine and transmission or an adaptor for the E154 around 1000 e
-a custom turbo kit around 2000 maybe 3000 e
-an aftermarket ecu (emanage ultimate maybe) for 500 e
-some other stuff like a boost controller, some gauges and couple other that I may forget 500-1000 e
-the work that needs to be done from a mechanic - electrician - tuner 1000 or maybe 2000 e
so approximately 7 - 10.000 euros

you can achieve that hp number with the 3s. I know. but the v8 would be more fun to drive and has more potential.
That's a completely stock motor with just 0.4 of boost. civilised - daily - reliable.
If you add some forged internals and bigger turbo set up ......

[Box]

The problem is making certain engines fit though.

[underground_desi...]

There is it.
A ta22 with a turbo v8 1uz and awd !

here is the link celica v8 awd

[Special_Edy]

1uz wont fit with any traverse awd layout on the 6gc. The oil pan would hit the ground without a dry sump system and the front of the block (without any pulleys or accessories) would be 6 inches past the inside frame rail, meaning after cutting the front of the car apart to make it fit your passengerside tire would rub the block when making left turns.

You could potentially start cutting up the car and weld a longitudinally mounted 1uz in, with a 4x4 transfer case and a solid front axle. I dont think IFS would be possible, you need an axle with a differential and the differential has to be offset to match the driveshaft from the transfer case. Lastly you will need a custom rack and pinion or worm gear steering setup and a fully custom front suspension.

If you want a 4liter, awd celica, the only practical way its gonna happen is swapping an 2grfe in with a 1gr crankshaft. It would eat 1uz's for breakfast.

An V8 awd celica is impossible, a 4wd celica is possible but not at all feasible. Easiest way would be to weld the celica body onto an existing 4x4 chassis

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Jun 21, 2014 - 7:20 PM

[kurt95gt]

1mz block 3mz heads
Forged internals
Add boost till happy

If you stay awd that is

Other way around. 3MZ block with 1MZ heads. you would need serious mods to the 3MZ heads to put them on a 1MZ block.

That's what I meant. Brain fart sorry.
I would love to see a and v6 6gen turbo or not

[underground_desi...]

1uz wont fit with any traverse awd layout on the 6gc. The oil pan would hit the ground without a dry sump system and the front of the block (without any pulleys or accessories) would be 6 inches past the inside frame rail, meaning after cutting the front of the car apart to make it fit your passengerside tire would rub the block when making left turns.

You could potentially start cutting up the car and weld a longitudinally mounted 1uz in, with a 4x4 transfer case and a solid front axle. I dont think IFS would be possible, you need an axle with a differential and the differential has to be offset to match the driveshaft from the transfer case. Lastly you will need a custom rack and pinion or worm gear steering setup and a fully custom front suspension.

If you want a 4liter, awd celica, the only practical way its gonna happen is swapping an 2grfe in with a 1gr crankshaft. It would eat 1uz's for breakfast.

An V8 awd celica is impossible, a 4wd celica is possible but not at all feasible. Easiest way would be to weld the celica body onto an existing 4x4 chassis

Thanks Special Edy!
A quick search showed that the 2grfe is a more common platform and can make some serious power.
Accordingly to you and what I understand, the 2gr-fe produces 266-280 hp as a 3.5l engine.
If the 1gr rankshaft is interchangeable then the extra half liter will push the power to more than 300 na hp and some tons of torque. all these are measured with just 87 octane fuel!!!
Plus the awd capabilty and comparative low weight due to the aluminium block.
So, lets say

scenario 1 : a light turbo set up
How much boost could the stock motor - fuel system - ecu - etc could handle and support?
What power should be expected from this?

Senario 2 : a built engine to support more boost without excessive modifications but retain drivability characteristics.
factory forged rods ( If I'm not wrong )
a set of forged pistons,
arp studs
a set of cometic gasket
upgrated(?) fuel system
a piggy back ecu? (is there something that support 6 cylinder engines? or a stand alone unit is nessecary?)
a stronger clutch
and what short of power do you think should be expected from such a set up?

It's a hard motor to source tho. What would be the most common cars that came with?

1mz block 3mz heads
Forged internals
Add boost till happy

If you stay awd that is

Other way around. 3MZ block with 1MZ heads. you would need serious mods to the 3MZ heads to put them on a 1MZ block.

That's what I meant. Brain fart sorry.
I would love to see a and v6 6gen turbo or not

Me too.
This thread was not meant to offend the 3s potential.
I just want to make something different and maybe better.
v6 and v8 motors are awesome!!!

Could you give some more information about the 3mz block - 1mz head combination?
Is it easy to retain the awd? Maybe Any non 6gc that use it and boost that motor?

[underground_desi...]

and just show some understanding for my bad English (maybe)
I do my best.

[kurt95gt]

A company called DTM(I think) built a Camry running a 3mz/1mz combo. Built an boosted it made 1057 HP /629 to
Now given that's not your normal build but it does show what can be done. Pretty sure that's on a stock block with upgraded internals

Smash did a hybrid. He can tell you more about it than I could

[Special_Edy]

You could probably turbocharge or supercharge a 1mz for the price of a 2gr.

A 1mz swap is about half or less the cost of a 2gr.
Maybe $1000-$2500 for a 1mz depending on how much you do yourself and twice that for a 2gr just based upon the cost of a used motor. I could go get a running 1mz for $300 but youre going to need a whole front clip for the 2gr unless you go with a standalone ecu.

Apparently some people have run low amounts of boost on stock 1mz internals and the TRD supercharger will run on a fully stock 1mz.
But the benefits of the 1mz and 2gr are not the horsepower, its the fact that from roughly 1000rpm to redline they are in the powerband as far as torque is concerned. A 1mz is pretty well matched to a 3sgte because of its broader torque curve vs higher rpm hp. The 2grfe is roughly making more torque at 1500rpm than the 3sgte's max figure

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Jun 23, 2014 - 11:04 AM

[underground_desi...]

A company called DTM(I think) built a Camry running a 3mz/1mz combo. Built an boosted it made 1057 HP /629 to
Now given that's not your normal build but it does show what can be done. Pretty sure that's on a stock block with upgraded internals

Smash did a hybrid. He can tell you more about it than I could

I've seen somewhere that 1057hp camry. I didn't knew it was a V6 tho.
Of course it's not a normal built and personally I am not going after something like this , but that's the proof that a bigger motor is USUALLY capable of more power and reliability.
I am going to search more info about it.
Thank you.

You could probably turbocharge or supercharge a 1mz for the price of a 2gr.

A 1mz swap is about half or less the cost of a 2gr.
Maybe $1000-$2500 for a 1mz depending on how much you do yourself and twice that for a 2gr just based upon the cost of a used motor. I could go get a running 1mz for $300 but youre going to need a whole front clip for the 2gr unless you go with a standalone ecu.

Apparently some people have run low amounts of boost on stock 1mz internals and the TRD supercharger will run on a fully stock 1mz.
But the benefits of the 1mz and 2gr are not the horsepower, its the fact that from roughly 1000rpm to redline they are in the powerband as far as torque is concerned. A 1mz is pretty well matched to a 3sgte because of its broader torque curve vs higher rpm hp. The 2grfe is roughly making more torque at 1500rpm than the 3sgte's max figure

That's what I wanted to say Special Edy. Thanks!
It's not about the peak power the 3s may achieve, but the big diference at all rpms and the drivability of a light boossted v6 v8 . Plus the fantastic sound.
Another reason is that using a bigger displacement engine with 300hp from the factory with a small amount of boost to reach 400-500hp you may mot need excessive engine modifications that costs alot and you don't have to push the engine to it's limits.
The stock boosted v8 1uz I was talking about before was working at the redline all the time and never said a single no.
It had insane amounts of torque even at 1000+ rpm.
The owner of this car after some years of hard use did a experiment and he abolished the FMIC and its piping. just a straight pipe diect into the plenum!!!
He eliminated all the lag of the turbo eventually! Of course that caused the air to get really hot after a couple of minutes (with the consequences) but it didn't matter since it was a drift car and its use didn't exceeded that time.
and all these from a completely stock engine-ecu-fuel system-etc that was not supposed to be used like this.

About the 1-2gr now.
I wasn't able to find a single conversion here.
some 1mz could be found but that's not easy tho, nor that cheap
Do you have any links of these boosted 1mzs. I would like to see some.

[Special_Edy]

Camry3MZ1000: http://youtu.be/XNWbZ53_CZo

GT40R Turbo Camry Video: http://youtu.be/VrYDPg8yMTU

There are lots of turbo 1mzs on google. Plenty of guys running up to 14psi on stock internals. Your going to need an aftermarket ecu.

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Jun 24, 2014 - 10:39 PM