turbo beams?, to turbo or not to turbo? that is teh question Options

[Arturio55]

Hello all. I have a 97 celica st. Obviously I need to ditch the 7a.
Last year I wanted to turbo the 7a and bought a bunch of parts. (Intercooler, mr2 turbo map sensor, blah blah) I soon acknowledged my stupidity.

Fast forward. In less than 2 weeks im gonna order a BEAMS engine for $1450 shipped. .CHOOSING THIS OVER 3SGTE BECAUSE IT COMES WITH LSD S54 AND THE WIRING IS SIMPLE. 3rd gen 3sgte is $1500+, and s54 is maybe 500. Factor in the cost of wiring and i would be at $2500 total. Unless one of you swap nazis are gonna give me an extra 1000 bucks, Please dont comment with the redundant "just buy a 3sgte". I already have 2nd gen pistons/rods (my good pal Garin sold me a bunch of stuff for dirt cheap), so compression isnt an issue. Also have stage 2 spec clutch, ct26 turbo, berk down pipe, axles, etc. All I would need to buy is a manifold, injectors, piggyback ecu, and fuel pump. Even if I got a 3sgte I would buy the last 2 so in reality I only need 2 extra things for this swap.

After considering all this, is it worth it for me to turbo the beams?
Does anyone know what compression gen2 pistons will give me?
Will gen 4 injectors work?
Would I have to recirculate the bov before or after the maf?

Any other helpful comments are welcome. Thank you.

This post has been edited by Arturio55: Sep 29, 2014 - 12:30 PM

[njccmd2002]

don know much about it, but a custom turbo manifold will set u back a few dollars, and nothing will be bolt on. at least 900 by a shop. Unless you know how to weld.

Then cracking open a beams is going to set u at least, 6 weeks, and 450 usd. You have to order the gasket set from Japan or australia.

piggyback ecu? another 200 - 300 usd

injectors? another 300 usd

you will be maybe in muddy waters, as ive only seen 2 turbo beams.

so your beams 1450 + 900 + 200 + 200 + the other extras you may need, like (airbox, maf, vvti sensor) is going to cost you more in the long run... if you even have the turbo run right. If you decide to slap the beams pistons, then another 400 bucks for a gasket set and six weeks.

you may be getting into a ghost project, some people start and never finish, due to lack of info.. think about it.

Not saying it can be done, but i suggest a beams is good for what it is, a quick source of power. Nice engine, exclusive. But i wanted more and Daniel wants more HP. You will have to make the choice.

[Arturio55]

don know much about it, but a custom turbo manifold will set u back a few dollars, and nothing will be bolt on. at least 900 by a shop. Unless you know how to weld.

Then cracking open a beams is going to set u at least, 6 weeks, and 450 usd. You have to order the gasket set from Japan or australia.

piggyback ecu? another 200 - 300 usd

injectors? another 300 usd

you will be maybe in muddy waters, as ive only seen 2 turbo beams.

so your beams 1450 + 900 + 200 + 200 + the other extras you may need, like (airbox, maf, vvti sensor) is going to cost you more in the long run... if you even have the turbo run right. If you decide to slap the beams pistons, then another 400 bucks for a gasket set and six weeks.

you may be getting into a ghost project, some people start and never finish, due to lack of info.. think about it.

Not saying it can be done, but i suggest a beams is good for what it is, a quick source of power. Nice engine, exclusive. But i wanted more and Daniel wants more HP. You will have to make the choice.

youre saying a stock 3sgte manifold wont bolt on?
piggyback can be bought for 150 on ebay at the right moment.

i understand everything youre saying, and this isnt me saying im definitely gonna do it. i just want some opinions and advice. but still if i do decide to go ahead with it, at least i could buy those parts over time and still enjoy the N/a beams for a couple months til i get everything together. instead of waiting til next year to do a 3sgte swap i would at least taste that 200hp at 7k rpms lol
also the one im getting comes with the air box, maf, vvti, etc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Toyota-Celica-...727&vxp=mtr

seller already agreed to 1450 shipped
and yea i understand the ghost project. but i would see it through to the end, whether boost or failure. it may take time but worst come to worst ill go back to n/a

This post has been edited by Arturio55: Sep 29, 2014 - 12:33 PM

[njccmd2002]

no a stock 3s mnanifold wont bolt. engine appears to be complete, but looks weathered.

[Smaay]

well everyone knows what im going to ask, why not V6? I just put a V6 in an ST and let me tell you its is a kick an the ass to drive!!!!!! you can get get the engine for about 700, an S54 trans with mounts and axles for 300 if you "find the right moment online" you will need a harness, Y pipe, and passenger mount (all i provide), the "hybrid clutch" from southbend. Thats all I can think of off the top of my head.

all this can be done for less than 2500.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Sep 29, 2014 - 3:16 PM

[richee3]

http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/81602-Be...Why-Good-or-Bad

Spend quite a bit of time searching the BEAMS Owners Group. All of your questions will be answered there.

Boosting a BEAMS would be an awesome project. It has a stronger block than a 3rd gen 3S-GTE and the 5S's that came in our cars. If you can find a good tuner, you can keep stock 11.0:1 compression which will spool your turbo really quick, but you better have a REALLY good tuner and EMS. It's easier to and safer to drop the compression but it's doable. And most importantly, the BEAMS head has EXCELLENT flow, perfect for a turbo project! The BEAMS head will embarrass an S2000 head.

But the big issue is money. Like Norberto said, the BEAMS head is unique and none of the other exhaust/turbo manifolds will bolt on (possibly the 4th gen 3S-GTE, but I've never looked into that) so you'll need a one-off manifold. You'll need a good standalone and some time on a dyno with a tuner who knows his way around a VVT-i system. Pretty common these days so finding a tuner shouldn't be difficult. At that point it would be best to ditch the stock MAF and switch to a MAP, since the MAF and stock ECU are the two biggest restrictions on a stock BEAMS.

When all of that is done, you've essentially spent a lot of money to build a 3S-GTE, which Toyota spent a ton of time and money to develop for us and costs less. It all comes down to how much you are willing to spend to end up with the same power. BEAMS is fun, 200 hp is great, but I don't like having all of my power at 7k RPM where I literally never use it. I'm going for a 3S-GTE rather than just putting a turbo on my BEAMS since it's much simpler and cheaper, but that's just the route I'm choosing. I love the idea of a boosted BEAMS but I'm too much of a tightwad to go through with it myself.

Summing things up: BEAMS is good fun in stock form but too expensive for most people to be worth modding. There's still a few brave souls who go through with it though.

[njccmd2002]

^^ well said.

Al tough i went another way. LOL..

[Arturio55]

no a stock 3s mnanifold wont bolt. engine appears to be complete, but looks weathered.

he has a cleaner one with super strut (i have coilovers so will be ditching that)

v6, no. just as much money as a 3sgte with more hassle.

if i were to turbo it, i do still have a mr2 map sensor so i would be one step closer.
at the moment this is all just consideration. if i could turbo it for relatively cheap then fnck yea ill do it.
if not then im gonna buy a beams anyways, it comes with the tranny which ill need regardless, then just save up and buy a 3rd gen 3sgte next summer. lol then ill drop the beams back in when its winter time til spring rolls back around. either way ill always have a backup engine

[Arturio55]

http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/81602-Be...Why-Good-or-Bad

Spend quite a bit of time searching the BEAMS Owners Group. All of your questions will be answered there.

Boosting a BEAMS would be an awesome project. It has a stronger block than a 3rd gen 3S-GTE and the 5S's that came in our cars. If you can find a good tuner, you can keep stock 11.0:1 compression which will spool your turbo really quick, but you better have a REALLY good tuner and EMS. It's easier to and safer to drop the compression but it's doable. And most importantly, the BEAMS head has EXCELLENT flow, perfect for a turbo project! The BEAMS head will embarrass an S2000 head.

But the big issue is money. Like Norberto said, the BEAMS head is unique and none of the other exhaust/turbo manifolds will bolt on (possibly the 4th gen 3S-GTE, but I've never looked into that) so you'll need a one-off manifold. You'll need a good standalone and some time on a dyno with a tuner who knows his way around a VVT-i system. Pretty common these days so finding a tuner shouldn't be difficult. At that point it would be best to ditch the stock MAF and switch to a MAP, since the MAF and stock ECU are the two biggest restrictions on a stock BEAMS.

When all of that is done, you've essentially spent a lot of money to build a 3S-GTE, which Toyota spent a ton of time and money to develop for us and costs less. It all comes down to how much you are willing to spend to end up with the same power. BEAMS is fun, 200 hp is great, but I don't like having all of my power at 7k RPM where I literally never use it. I'm going for a 3S-GTE rather than just putting a turbo on my BEAMS since it's much simpler and cheaper, but that's just the route I'm choosing. I love the idea of a boosted BEAMS but I'm too much of a tightwad to go through with it myself.

Summing things up: BEAMS is good fun in stock form but too expensive for most people to be worth modding. There's still a few brave souls who go through with it though.

in that link you included, protok said "The beams is a high compression engine and that is it’s defining feature, besides with the right tune you can run quite a bit of boost and power on stock. If I can run 14psi on stock pistons and rods, imagine what you can do with forged pistons and rods; you’d be able to keep the compression (or only reduce to 10:1 or so) and run a large amount of boost." that alone makes me want to turbo a beams. if i can find a cheap power fc or emanange ultimate im going for it

[njccmd2002]

just remember, it wont be cheap. and you wont get as high HP as a 3sgte from factory, and a few minor changes.

[Syaoran]

If he keeps the stock beams pistons he'll get gobs more power than a 3sgte from the factory could ever dream of having.

He'll also get a crapload of knock issues probably even on 93 octane gas.

Boosting an engine that doesn't come boosted from the factory in a DIY manner results in having to work on it several times if not continously, so getting a BEAMS to do this isn't that good of an idea given the scarcity of the gaskets and seals.

Another flaw in your plan is getting a piggyback ECU for turboing the BEAMS. You should be thinking about getting a standalone if anything. It simply makes more sense than trying to fight the stock ECU.

[ricochet1490]

CLEAR! thread revival.

Why haven't we talked about spraying the beams?. Stock ecu, wet system, 50 shot. Ability to street tune by changing jets. 400 for the nitrous kit, 300 for the wideband. Done.

[Smaay]

that would be a safer option. i never liked nitrous until I was given a kit and i installed it on my Supra. It has a nice kick and the car runs richer under boost so its safer

[ricochet1490]

That's kind of where I am. A weekend worth of work and it could be a blast. My only concern would be the velocity stacks in the intake of the beams, but I'm sure there are other motors that have them with nitrous as well. But that car with the compression should love spray. The tune us so rich up top you might even be able to use the nitrous to lean it out...