how much to make a 7age? Options

[Yoni502]

I am wanting to know about how much it would cost me to make my 7afe into a 7age what all would i need? thanks!

[Box]

It's a pretty complicated ordeal. I had looked into it years ago when I had my ST. The 4A-GZE or 20V swaps aren't any easier. Really the best thing to do would be to do a 1MZ and S54 or E153 swap. You'll get 200 hp and 214 ft lbs of torque and get 30 mpg and all the parts are readily available at any parts house. Smaay, Lamont, and kurt95gt have good threads on the conversion. Something to look into anyway. That or the thing to do would be to find a GT with a blown/bad motor and swap it while still driving the ST and then once it's done sell the ST.

[Celica_MKVI]

Why is a 7AGE a bad swap idea when plenty of other Toyota 7A/4A cars are doing it?
After digging quite a bit on this forum, I find it absolutely odd a 7A anything and 4AG hybrids are frowned upon here. Why is that? Sure, it is easy to just drop in and do a 3SGTE or V6 swap, but none of that is considered unique. There are countless 7AGE/7AGTE built engines that are solid with no issues running around the MR2/Corolla forums...what makes the 7A 6GC Celica any different?? And 6GC member Nik successfully made a 7AGTE with 450hp.

I own a AT200 and have considered doing a hybrid swap as well. Granted a 7AGE won't net you much in the hp area, however, it does make the engine more fun to drive. For Toyota and the 4AGE, it was never about big power, it was more about fun and performance under the curve. A 7AFE by itself I agree has no balls with very little, if any, aftermarket support...but it still has serious potential that others on this forum have over looked. IMO converting it to a 7AGE puts your foot in the door to more possibilities and potential. The 7A block is favorable because it has a larger displacement over the 4AG engine, which to the 4AG crowd is great for those that want to move to forced induction. Just look on the 4AG forums, there are several guys building 7A blocks and swapping over. The head on the 7AFE is the big hindrance, once you change that to something that has a huge aftermarket following(a 4AG head), the modification and power possibilities now become endless. 4AGZE pistons do fit in a 7A block. And there are a couple shops that now make aftermarket forged rods for the 7A...with one shop making a 7A rod that mats right up to the 4AGZE piston just for this type of setup. That all makes for a complete bullet proof bottom end.

The biggest fable is the 'weak 6 bolt crank' on the 7A, versus the 4A and all others having 8 bolts. Truth is, there is no real proof in the 6 bolts being inferior...swap in ARP bolts and move on. One 7AGTE even had the flywheel fail and shred, but the 6 bolts still held on...and this guy is pushing 500hp thru his 7AGTE build. Some will even say the C52 tranny is too weak, but a lot of built +200hp 4AGZE guys are still running with the C52.

My own plan that I thought about doing: Adding forged rods and 4AGZE pistons. Buying a complete 4AGZE engine and swapping in the top end to have a running 7AGZE. And later, when I scrapped up enough funds, piece together a turbo kit and lose the supercharger. I scrapped my idea because I don't want to turn my Celica in to a full time project car...but maybe I should reconsider just to prove my point. haha

To the OP, in my opinion, if you want to get some real help on building your 7AFE, look on a Corolla or MR2 MKI forum. I believe many 7A 6GC owners here are duped by others on this forum in to thinking the 7A has no potential what so ever.
The real truth, anything that can be done to a 4AGE engine, can also be done to a 7AFE engine.

7AGE 16v - 7A block with 4AGE 16v head.
7AGE 20v - 7A block with 4AGE 20v head.
7AGZE - 7A block with supercharged 4AGZE 16v head.
7AGTE - 7A block with 4AGE head(can be 16v or 20v) + Turbocharger.

http://www.matrixgarage.com/content/gettin...ge-hybrid-build
http://matrixgarage.com/store/7a-ge-engine-components
http://www.mrpltd.co.nz/product/165/7agte-...-2b-engine.html
500hp 7AGTE race car - http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/135-coro...0v-project.html

[Lamont]

My concern with the OP question is he would like to know "how much" to do a 7AGE swap. This indicates to me that money is a major issue. If you want to do a swap my personal rule is to come up with a budget, then triple it and you will be in the ballpark of completing the swap. People always want more power, but if you are concerned with cost right away I would say to sell what you have and buy something with more power. Doing an engine swap adds very little to the value of your car, and is always a losing proposition when it comes time to sell it. You can quote me on this, "you will never get the money back that you put into doing an engine swap". If you want something more fun to drive and you have the funds then do it, but if you are concerned with costs stay away because engine swaps are expensive no matter what.

[Rusty]

As with what Celica_MKVI, said, you may find other sites/forums have more information about exploring this route. But do keep on here and show others what the 7A can produce, or turn it ino a 9A-GTE/GE thats fun too.

If you are serious, Barry from MRP is the man to talk too.

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[njccmd2002]

If the guy wants to build a 7age, let him be, everyone wants to belittle him. Wether unique or not. Who cares.

This is what strikes me about this forum, everything is no, no, no. Slap a v6, 3sgte and call it a day.

I got a lot of naysayers about my own swap too. 2GRFE its not unique, because its been done in Mr2'S, and because i dont know what Im doing, and asking. ? what!!

if hes got the money, let him build it the way he wants. Im way over my head in the 2gr, and I dont care. In the end is what i wanted. and not what the FORUM WANTED.

LETS STOP THIS NAY, nay NAY culture.

Anything can be swapped. period. The harder a swap is, the more inclined im to do it. the rare it is the better.

[Rusty]

Lets keep to the topic cheers

[Box]

LS swap /thread.

Seriously though combining the 4A head with the 7A block isn't straight forward at all, the 3S onto a 5S isn't so bad for some reason but the 4A onto 7A is. A lot of things had to be redrilled or re-tapped and modified. I think the timing needed a 944 belt and adjustable gears or something like that. Anyway, unless you can do all the machine work yourself you're paying out good money just on that and hoping they get it right. Finding someone that knows modifying Toyota motors beyond the 2JZ or 3S is like finding gold in your backyard. Never meant to discourage just to say there are easier and most likely cheaper means to an end. Anything can be done with enough time, money, and ingenuity, we have a member that converted his to a RWD 5S-GTE drag car.

And of course Norberto with the 2GR which I was always for by the way.

[Noahwhite2014]

I am wanting to know about how much it would cost me to make my 7afe into a 7age what all would i need? thanks!

First of all Im not trying to discourage you, i just don't think most of the guys looking to keep the 7a in their car realize how much work or money it will be.

You will need a stand alone ECU. If you use a 4age head and ecu, it will probably run, but not properly.
If a good stand alone and tuning (plan for many hours of just tuning) is out of your budget, a different swap would be better.
Other than that, swap the 4age head over (easier said than done...), wire everything up, and technically you have a 7age.

If you're looking to build it, and have an exhaust of income, don't want to do much work yourself...
http://www.mrpltd.co.nz/product/165/7agte-...-2b-engine.html

"7000 NZD" or roughly about $4450. Thats without their turbo and extra stuff. Also not including shipping or a transmission that will handle the power. And no ECU or tune, exhaust, intake piping, or upgraded fuel pump.

Id set about 5500 + tuning Time as the baseline for how much it would cost to make your 7afe into a 7agte.

Going for just a 7age for the measly extra power it would provide NA makes no sense as you'd still need a standalone ECU to run it, still need to tune it (but it would be easier and require less time) and still need to rip apart your engine and machine it (while its apart most people rebuild it and upgrade the internals). THEN when you finally start it up, and get it running, you will be happy for a while, then you will want more horsepower. Being that you've already invested at least $3000 into it NA you won't want to just swap to something else anymore you want to keep your 7age, but turbo it. You will then have to change the internals so you can run high boost, and then rip apart the engine again (at least no machining this time? if you don't warp the head from overheating issues from boring coolant lines incorrectly), rebuild it again, install a new exhaust, new intake/intercooler piping which will need welding/some custom work, tapping into oil feeds, etc, upgrading your fuel system, starting it, and then tuning again.

Over all the cost to do all of what i mentioned before , will honestly be much cheaper, much faster, and much more reliable, to just buy the engine from those guys (MRP same people that rusty was referring to) then just doing the wiring of the ecu, installing the intercooler piping, upgrading your fuel system, and tuning on your own (or find a friend).

Again not trying to discourage you, just providing some info that a lot of people don't think about. If after reading this, you want to go forward with the project. Feel free to ask questions on the forum, Im sure someone here will know something about it at least!

This post has been edited by Noahwhite2014: Sep 4, 2015 - 8:18 AM

[Box]

Here's a good alternative for you if keeping the 7A: http://www.6gc.net/howto/turbocharge_your_7afe

[Celica_MKVI]

LS swap /thread.

Seriously though combining the 4A head with the 7A block isn't straight forward at all, the 3S onto a 5S isn't so bad for some reason but the 4A onto 7A is. A lot of things had to be redrilled or re-tapped and modified. I think the timing needed a 944 belt and adjustable gears or something like that. Anyway, unless you can do all the machine work yourself you're paying out good money just on that and hoping they get it right. Finding someone that knows modifying Toyota motors beyond the 2JZ or 3S is like finding gold in your backyard. Never meant to discourage just to say there are easier and most likely cheaper means to an end. Anything can be done with enough time, money, and ingenuity, we have a member that converted his to a RWD 5S-GTE drag car.

And of course Norberto with the 2GR which I was always for by the way.

Incorrect. The 4A head does bolt right up to a 7A block, it is straightforward. The blocks are identical except for height(which is why you need a longer timing belt off a Porsche 944). Both head gaskets fit. I'd refrain from putting out mis-information here unless you absolutely know for sure what you state is true.
Finding a 4AG mechanic is just as easy as finding a 3S or 2JZ mechanic. Everyone is working on 2JZs now, and 4AGs have been around longer and have a larger fan base. 4AGs have been used in just as many, if not more, racing applications than the 3S and 2JZ.

[LtSolid]

Hey. I also have an ST. I love my car. I've almost had It for 1 year and it's in pretty great condition with 189k miles. I've been goin back and forth on whether I should do the 4a head swap or the 3sgte or even the v6. And I gotta say, Noah just def convinced me away from the 7ag. Had no idea about the tuning side of It. And I thought it would be cheaper than a 3Sgt swap! Don't really like the sound of that.

I'm really starting to lean more to the 3s swap(it's been done alot so it seems sorta easy). I really thought that the 4a head swap was less time and $$$ consuming than the rest of the lot. I want more power, but I've never done a swap before. Although I have the means to do it(lifts, tools, etc). A swap and wiring job sounds a bit more easier than what all the extra **** noah explained .

And if you.turbo your 7a, you almost sorta have to be obligated to clean and replace some of your internals. My 1.8 runs awesome even for its mileage but my baby burns oil like a mother****er. I think with the 2-3k dollars to properly turbo my 7a, I might as well save a lil more and just order that front clip. Bc lets be honest, I don't wanna drop $1500 to my 7a(without a rebuild), just to.run 6 pounds of boost.

[BonzaiCelica]

I'd much rather do a 3sge beams with 5sfe block or 3sgte 2.3 liter over a 9agte. Reading the info on 9agte seems darn complicated and only about 2-3 people have done it before. Tshuchiya has done the 9age (1.9liter sleeved 7afe block) upgrade to his corolla. only 200ps and that includes ITB's. same as beams redtop. but probably less torque due to no vvt-i. Slap an aftermarket ecu on beams and you can make power safely on stock internals up to 8,000 rpm. yay

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 26, 2017 - 4:02 PM

[Bitter]

Someone over at Toyotanation built one for their Corolla, 8yrs on and it's still not running properly.

[rdyzz]

As with anything, if your going to do it make sure you commit and see it through.

[Noahwhite2014]

IF you want some cheap power for the time being. Nitrous. If its legal.

The 7a can take the extra shot of power

Run a 75 wet shot and 93+octane gas (or 91 and octane booster if you can't find 93) and retard the timing a bit a few degrees maybe. Again only do this if you plan on swapping, in . Most work you'll have to do is shave out all the little areas that strengthen the intake manifold on the bottom and top, while you're in there polish the whole thing don't need to do the head unless you plan on taking that out too, the gains will be minimal without cams for a port and polish. Main reason for grinding the intake manifold is so you don't get a lot of fuel puddles in there from the wet shot. If you do it right you won't have a problem with it though. Install a CAI with 2.5" piping. install a 7afe exhaust header from eBay, have someone redo the welds (if you can't) because they WILL blow if you don't and you run nitrous. but then gut the cat (or install a high flow cat) and single 2.5inch from the header back (whichever is easier to find in your location) install a resonator in the stock location and then if you want you can pay to have someone redo the exhaust over the axle with mandrel bent piping and flanges and then install a muffler. Or you can use flex piping, really won't make much of a difference with the flow that you'll have.

running nitrous without a header and exhaust will increase temps A LOT and the exhaust won't get all the exhaust gases out fast enough. were talking about shoving unmetered fuel and oxygen into the engine. You won't NEED to upgrade your fuel pump and you can just install an inline fuel pump if you really want to, but its not 100% needed if your fuel pump is still running pretty strong.

Wont need a tune, but it would be nice as it'll last longer. But if you do the exhaust yourself probably $150 for all of that (going the cheap way gutting the cat, no resonator, no muffler...). And then the nitrous kit maybe 500-600 max (eBay ones are cheap and aren't too bad anything above 300 and under 400 would be fine). Refills are cheap if you know someone who can do it. A purge kit would be cool too if you get a gtfour hood and run the purge out of the two upper vents!

but if you do the work yourself you can probably get everything done for under $600 with a cheap kit. start with 25 shot, move up to 50, listen for knock, go up to 75. If you're ballsy, run a 100 lol but it won't last long.

You'll be looking at maybe 160-170 whp. punch the nitrous after you hit 15mph and then hit it at 3000-5500 and so on. don't keep the nitrous depress while you shift. the rpm will keep going since its not controlled by the throttle lol

THIS IS NOT A POST FROM EXPERIENCE. THIS IS STRICTLY FROM RESEARCH.

Also sorry of the random locations of the info, i just get off track sometimes.

This post has been edited by Noahwhite2014: Sep 11, 2015 - 4:01 AM

[Box]

LS swap /thread.

Seriously though combining the 4A head with the 7A block isn't straight forward at all, the 3S onto a 5S isn't so bad for some reason but the 4A onto 7A is. A lot of things had to be redrilled or re-tapped and modified. I think the timing needed a 944 belt and adjustable gears or something like that. Anyway, unless you can do all the machine work yourself you're paying out good money just on that and hoping they get it right. Finding someone that knows modifying Toyota motors beyond the 2JZ or 3S is like finding gold in your backyard. Never meant to discourage just to say there are easier and most likely cheaper means to an end. Anything can be done with enough time, money, and ingenuity, we have a member that converted his to a RWD 5S-GTE drag car.

And of course Norberto with the 2GR which I was always for by the way.

Incorrect. The 4A head does bolt right up to a 7A block, it is straightforward. The blocks are identical except for height(which is why you need a longer timing belt off a Porsche 944). Both head gaskets fit. I'd refrain from putting out mis-information here unless you absolutely know for sure what you state is true.
Finding a 4AG mechanic is just as easy as finding a 3S or 2JZ mechanic. Everyone is working on 2JZs now, and 4AGs have been around longer and have a larger fan base. 4AGs have been used in just as many, if not more, racing applications than the 3S and 2JZ.

No I'm pretty sure the oil or water jackets had to be machined so they lined up perfectly which is why I ended up never doing anything with mine, if I find the post off whatever Corolla forum it was that had a comprehensive list of all work and parts needed I'll post it. Not so sure about the 3S, Toyota used it in their GT500 MKIV Supra before using a modified UZ V8 at the end. Of course it was also used in the WRC Celica through the generations as well. Kind of ironic the MKIV Supra never raced with the engine it was sold with as a street car.

You wouldn't have to rebuild the 7A for a few pounds of boost if you can get the oil rings freed up. Hot Shot's stiction remover is guaranteed to remove build up and free rings, but it was pretty costly when I looked into it. Using Marvel as a piston soak was enough for mine and it's right under $4 for a quart which lets you use 8 oz per cylinder, and then after that you can let it stay until you're ready to change the oil. If doing an oil change soon you could use something more aggressive like the various oil flushes out there and that should do even better at freeing up the rings.

[Box]

I think this might be it: http://www.matrixgarage.com/content/gettin...ge-hybrid-build It wasn't oil or coolant jackets, you have to change out the rods and pistons. I knew there was something that required pulling the engine, tearing it down, and then building it back up. So yeah, might want to refrain from telling people it's a walk in the park when it's more like going through a minefield.

[Celica_MKVI]

I think this might be it: http://www.matrixgarage.com/content/gettin...ge-hybrid-build It wasn't oil or coolant jackets, you have to change out the rods and pistons. I knew there was something that required pulling the engine, tearing it down, and then building it back up. So yeah, might want to refrain from telling people it's a walk in the park when it's more like going through a minefield.

Matrixgarage already makes a custom 7A rod that was designed to mat up perfectly to the 4AG piston. I already pointed that out in my first post and I also gave the link.
A 7AGE/7AGTE is an "actual build"...and with any build, there is going to be homework involved. All builds vary from $1000 to several thousands...dependent on the resources you have and if you can do the work yourself(all the better and cheaper), as well as how in-depth you want to go and with what quality parts you want to use.
How is a 7AGE a minefield when this build has been documented and done a million times over? Most 4AG gearheads move to the 7A because of the larger displacement(more torque) and is better suited for turbocharging(more exhaust flow). This thread is actually about how to go about building a 7AGE, not about how you feel about it or how difficult you think it is. Just because it is difficult to you, doesn't mean it is difficult for everyone else...for me, I see it as a fun project. Seriously, how difficult is it to copy someone elses build? I would try this myself, but I already committed to getting another project done...no fun having two projects going on at the same time.
My personal opinion from reading posts in the 6GC forum, since the 7A came in the low end model Celica w/ only 110hp people tend to associate it as being a **** engine with no potential...which is far from the truth. Case in point, this very thread, and how people think it is a waste of money to even spend money on a 7A engine. I really don't understand the negative attitude towards it.
I do understand a 7AGE, or even a 4AGE, isn't for everybody...but it is pretty obvious the 7AGE/7AGTE has no place in this forum.

[LtSolid]

i think the power to weight ratio should def be taken into account here. its a given that 7AGE/7AGTE is really popular among corollas and levines. but those are really light cars compared to our 6gc's.

and thanks for that info Box. i completely forgot about the oil flushes. ill look into that.