Cooling System Assistance Options

[brandon702bmx]

I'm on here a lot lately... seems like I am becoming a nuisance more than anything.

To be fair, I've "researched" other sources to see if I can answer my question properly but none of them really seem to answer it.

Anyhow, I removed the radiator because my car was in an accident. (had to do some repairs to front end) I installed it and filled with coolant...

I've been driving the car recently and noticed that when I come to a stop, the car is leaving puddles of coolant + overheating at some times. At other times... it takes a while to get up to operating temperature. The gauge stays well below the half way mark. I'm talking about 1/4 of the gauge even while driving it for periods of time. I also forgot to mention, it fluctuates as well. It seems like it wants to go to operating temp and then goes right back down.

My research has brought me to this conclusion:
When filling radiator with coolant, jack the front of the car so that it is elevated.
Leave the radiator cap off, place a funnel in the hole and make sure it fits snug, fill to where the coolant is visible at the lowest point of the funnel.
Turn the dial to the hottest setting and put the heater on low.
Allow the car to run, reaching operating temp.
Squeeze rad hoses to assist with removing air.
Add coolant as needed until fluctuating coolant levels stop as its replacing coolant with the air in the system.
Screw cap rad cap on.

Everythings good after that? I'm sure to most this may be common sense but I was unsure of doing this.

Also a speculation since sometimes the car won't reach operating temp, the thermostat is bad and isn't allowing proper circulation since it may be getting stuck?
What should be troubleshooted first?

[slavie]

For the thermostat, best is to take it off and drop it in a cup of boiling water. Just 2 10mm buts holding it in after you take off the hose. If you have a way to measure the water temp, you can make sure it opens at the right temp.

What I like to do is disconnect the radiator return hose (top one) and pour in the coolant directly into the hose. This way you'll fill the engine block directly, rather than waiting for thermostat to open or waiting for it to seep through the tiny hole in the thermostat (if you have an OEM one). Usually a quart or two goes in that way, in addition to filling the rad to the brim.

This does not eliminate air, it just helps to get rid of it sooner. At this point, run the car until you get heat out of the vents inside, and shut it off. Let it cool down, top off the rad/overflow tank, repeat. Second top off will take much less coolant, and the third one will take a cup or so (this can be done after few days of light driving, just make sure to watch the temp gauge).

[Box]

You're on the right track, in addition to what slavie said it could be the radiator has a crack in the tanks from the accident. They like to crack on their own with age, so the accident could've done it in, look across the tanks for signs of weeping or damage. The other possibilities being you didn't get those hoses seated or tightened all the way and they're seeping under pressure. It's possible the thermostat failed all of a sudden, but if the car was fine prior I'd be more inclined towards the aforementioned. Especially since you're saying it's leaving puddles of coolant on the ground. Which some times the water pump will weep once it starts to fail, but again if it was fine prior I'd be more doubtful of it. So long story short; double check the radiator tanks for damage and make sure all your hoses are on properly, and you can test/replace the thermostat then try bleeding again.

[brandon702bmx]

You're on the right track, in addition to what slavie said it could be the radiator has a crack in the tanks from the accident. They like to crack on their own with age, so the accident could've done it in, look across the tanks for signs of weeping or damage. The other possibilities being you didn't get those hoses seated or tightened all the way and they're seeping under pressure. It's possible the thermostat failed all of a sudden, but if the car was fine prior I'd be more inclined towards the aforementioned. Especially since you're saying it's leaving puddles of coolant on the ground. Which some times the water pump will weep once it starts to fail, but again if it was fine prior I'd be more doubtful of it. So long story short; double check the radiator tanks for damage and make sure all your hoses are on properly, and you can test/replace the thermostat then try bleeding again.

This is what I did. I drained the radiator, removed the thermostat housing, boiled some water up to 82C and placed the thermostat in the boiling water. It opened and closed. So, I put a new gasket around it and put it back in the housing with that “jiggle valve” lined up with the notch at the top, bolted it back on, tightened the hose. Jacked the front of the car up pretty high, filled it. It took the whole gallon, didn’t top off, placed a snug tight funnel where the cap is supposed to go, cranked the heater on and ran the car for a good 15-20 minutes, revved it every once in a while, let the fans kick on 2-3 times, capped it off and drove it. It’s not leaving pools of coolant below the reservoir area anymore and no overheats. The day after bought more coolant, topped it off again flat level and made sure the reservoir was filled to the line. I drove it about 2 or 3 miles, stopped and checked it. I see active runoff about underneath the reservoir and minuscule drops on the ground. So I’m getting closer (I really hope) I don’t care if I have to replace the whole system I just don’t wanna hear blown headgasket.

[Box]

If you had a blown head gasket you'd have either oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil, burning coolant, and/or having compression escape into the cooling system. Really just have to bleed it the best you can stationary and get the rest out by driving it, and that's most any car. Unless they put a bleed valve in the top of the cooling system, but I've really only seen that on a small handful of vehicles and even then it can still take driving to get it fully bled. Just make sure the reservoir stays topped off and keep an eye on things and you should be good to go.

[brandon702bmx]

If you had a blown head gasket you'd have either oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil, burning coolant, and/or having compression escape into the cooling system. Really just have to bleed it the best you can stationary and get the rest out by driving it, and that's most any car. Unless they put a bleed valve in the top of the cooling system, but I've really only seen that on a small handful of vehicles and even then it can still take driving to get it fully bled. Just make sure the reservoir stays topped off and keep an eye on things and you should be good to go.

Okay. I have a question. I drove the car once again. This time, more drops started coming from the driver side of the car. I popped the hood and I noticed that there was coolant on the underside of my hood, on my battery, and in the surrounding area. This is completely normal...?

[slavie]

If you had a blown head gasket you'd have either oil in the coolant, coolant in the oil, burning coolant, and/or having compression escape into the cooling system. Really just have to bleed it the best you can stationary and get the rest out by driving it, and that's most any car. Unless they put a bleed valve in the top of the cooling system, but I've really only seen that on a small handful of vehicles and even then it can still take driving to get it fully bled. Just make sure the reservoir stays topped off and keep an eye on things and you should be good to go.

Okay. I have a question. I drove the car once again. This time, more drops started coming from the driver side of the car. I popped the hood and I noticed that there was coolant on the underside of my hood, on my battery, and in the surrounding area. This is completely normal...?

Either you have a small leak that only manifests under pressure, or the system is overheating and spitting coolant out through the overflow tank that is under the battery.

A good way to find leaks is to get a cooling system pressure tester like this one from harbor freight:
https://www.harborfreight.com/radiator-pres...-kit-63862.html

It comes with a hand pump that pressurizes the cooling system to its working pressure (12-15psi, iirc), and has a gauge to monitor it. Basically, if the pressure leaks out somewhere, it's fairly easy to listen for the hiss or go looking for where the coolant is seeping out without the engine running. I used it to find a maddening leak on one of my cars that I may have never been able to find otherwise - coolant hose clamp could not hold the pressure and was leaking very slightly when the engine was hot. It was my case of vanishing coolant mystery, solved after months of hunting.
This will also reveal a leak in the radiator, which I would not rule out in your case. The top plastic case of the rad likes to crack on these cars after years of heat cycles.

Another good test to check head gasket as the cause is the Combustion Leak Test. This tests for presence of exhaust gasses in the cooling system. If HG is blown (or "blowing by"), hot exhaust gasses get into the cooling system (if the break is into the cooling passage) and boil things pretty quickly. This would go out through the overflow tank and may well cause coolant splatter around that area.

Finally, leak down test is excellent tool to test HG. It's conducted under higher pressure than others, and bubbles will show up in the rad if HG is blown through to cooling system.

Sometimes proper diagnostic can spare you a lot of parts, headache, and bruised knuckles.

This post has been edited by slavie: Jan 20, 2018 - 9:47 AM

[Box]

^That.

Also have you checked the radiator cap?

[brandon702bmx]

^That.

Also have you checked the radiator cap?

I replaced the radiator cap completely. The car hasn't reached above halfway on the gauge. However, I do notice when I'm driving the car a bit harder per say make the gauge drop significantly. It will reach what seems operating temp and then go down. Not as bad as before. But still.

[brandon702bmx]

Alright so my last and final option now is to replace the radiator and the hoses. During the accident, the radiator warped a tad and I bent it back seeing perhaps maybe I could salvage it. So I'm assuming that the radiator being cracked from old age like Box said can cause the overflow to flow coolant out the side? Someone else who has helped me with the car "patched" the leaks that it did have apparently and it seemed to work. I don't have any active coolant drips at idle nor when the car is off. I don't see any leakage from the radiator. I've tested the thermostat (doesn't stick, opens and closes), I changed the radiator cap, I've tried removing the air pockets from the system.

I had the hood up also and my dad noticed that pressure seemed to have been being released from somewhere near the cap. I don't understand how that could be because the cap was just replaced.

I pulled the dipstick out to check for milky oil and looked at the underside of the oil cap to see if milky build up was there. Drained the coolant a few times after driving it. Coolant isn't milky. Nothing of the sort.

I notice when driving it harder or on the freeway, I shut the car off and you can hear slight boiling under the hood. It goes away rather quickly.

So my options right now are to replace the radiator and hoses as a whole and clean slate.

Or accept the fact it could be a head gasket issue.

Can a leak somewhere cause this boiling in the overflow and spillage or can only a head gasket do that?

Thoughts and suggestions? I'm new to this all so I hope you can guys can bare with me so I can come to a solution.

[Box]

Radiator could have cracks in the tanks, or if it was bent and you bent it back it could've cracked a coolant tube. The cracks could be hairline and your're not going to see them unless you look really closely. Any leaks in the cooling system will let out pressure in the system, drop in pressure the boiling point of the coolant drops. So when it's leaking and losing pressure the coolant flash boils and whooosh coolant gushes out. Here found you an open box Denso radiator for a steal: https://www.ebay.com/itm/DENSO-221-3133-Rad...m4383.l4275.c10

[Box]

If the coolant doesn't smell like fuel/exhaust, you have no oil/coolant cross contamination, or you don't have white sweet smelling smoke pouring from the exhaust you should be ok as far as the head gasket goes.

This post has been edited by Box: Jan 24, 2018 - 12:11 AM

[brandon702bmx]

Oh thank you so much!!! In the picture, however, it doesn't appear to be as wide or am I just crazy...?

[cheela]

I thought you got a new radiator. If you got into a crash bad enough to set off the airbags, I think the radiator would no longer be good. It seems like your problems are coming from reusing the radiator. If you had to bend it back into shape then I would replace it. There are some key components in cars that you shouldn't cheap out on. I got into a crash with mine a long long time ago and had a shop put it back together. they cut ALOT of corners and set me back by having to do my own repairs after it all, the radiator being one of them. I'm pretty sure they just got a used radiator. It looked fine but slowly leaked right where you said it does on the driver's side by the battery/radiator cap. tossed that one and replaced it with one from advance auto. not a single issue since then.

[brandon702bmx]

I thought you got a new radiator. If you got into a crash bad enough to set off the airbags, I think the radiator would no longer be good. It seems like your problems are coming from reusing the radiator. If you had to bend it back into shape then I would replace it. There are some key components in cars that you shouldn't cheap out on. I got into a crash with mine a long long time ago and had a shop put it back together. they cut ALOT of corners and set me back by having to do my own repairs after it all, the radiator being one of them. I'm pretty sure they just got a used radiator. It looked fine but slowly leaked right where you said it does on the driver's side by the battery/radiator cap. tossed that one and replaced it with one from advance auto. not a single issue since then.

I needed a temp fix for the time being as I was going to school but most definitely going to invest in a new rad and hoses while I’m at it. I’m interested in the one Box sent however it’s the incorrect thumbnail or preview photo. Do either you suggest the Megan aluminum rad if you’ve heard of it?

[brandon702bmx]

I thought you got a new radiator. If you got into a crash bad enough to set off the airbags, I think the radiator would no longer be good. It seems like your problems are coming from reusing the radiator. If you had to bend it back into shape then I would replace it. There are some key components in cars that you shouldn't cheap out on. I got into a crash with mine a long long time ago and had a shop put it back together. they cut ALOT of corners and set me back by having to do my own repairs after it all, the radiator being one of them. I'm pretty sure they just got a used radiator. It looked fine but slowly leaked right where you said it does on the driver's side by the battery/radiator cap. tossed that one and replaced it with one from advance auto. not a single issue since then.

The only reason the rad was even considered being salvaged was the fact that when I got into my accident, the car was quite a bit lower to the ground and I wrecked into the back of a van with a bash bar on the back so most damage was on the driver headlight area/hood. So I didn’t exactly hit head on.

Probably should have went the smart route and just purchased a new one. Didn’t think a lack of pressure would cause overflow + the fact I didn’t know what to diagnose it.

[cheela]

I wouldn't get anything other than stock replacement since you're just running the 5s and aren't planning to build/turbo it are you?
also seems like you're on a budget so just get an OE grade replacement from any auto store or even rockauto.com

[Box]

Hopefully you can get a hold of the eBay seller to confirm, since it is the right part number just the pictures don't match. Since at $50 shipped it's at least half of what you'd pay to get it elsewhere.

[brandon702bmx]

I wouldn't get anything other than stock replacement since you're just running the 5s and aren't planning to build/turbo it are you?
also seems like you're on a budget so just get an OE grade replacement from any auto store or even rockauto.com

No turbo. Would love to get a hold of a Beams later down the road but most certainly not now with school. I suggested the Megan one just for better cooling. Couldn't hurt it right? I'll probably look into an OE grade one then.

[brandon702bmx]

Also another question. When it comes to thermostat and rad cap, will an OE standard replacement suffice or should I go for OEM?