Upgraded Suspension Bushings, front control arm and rear trailing/adjustment arm bushings Options

[hurley97]

A while ago I bought these Polyurethane bushings for the rear suspension and I finally got a chance to install them




You can get them on eBay here
or from Red Rocket Performance, or user RedRkt01 here on 6gc, mr2oc, or celicatech


We had installed the set for the front on Dustin's car a while back, link to thread here, and they made a huge difference. I wanted to do the rears first in my car to see the difference between just the fronts and just the rears. So I did.

They replace the bushings in both rear adjustment arms, trailing arms, and control arms. I brought the car to work and installed them with the help of one of the guys I work with. The job required the use of the press, vice, air hammer, torch, the air gun, and a few hand tools. Not really a job I could have done by myself outside in front of the house, might have been able to do it in Manny's garage but it would not have been easy and would have taken at least all day if not all weekend. It took us about 3-1/2 to 4 hrs to finish the job. And yes, you really need to do an alignment afterward.

I didn't really take good pictures during the process and all I have are crappy pictures of the finished product. Maybe I can get some better ones on my day off.












First Impressions:
I've only put about 150 miles on the car since the installation and most of it has been back and forth to work in traffic. I do have to say, these things are very bad for me. People already tell me I drive like a maniac and I'm usually the only person on the road who speeds up to take a corner, but now I just feel like I can go even faster all the time. I have gotten a little time with some corners and all I can think about is finding more corners and driving even faster around them. I actually got my front wheels to loose grip around a corner while the rear had not problem and just guided the car around. The car feels much more solid overall and, it might seem weird, but I feel like the steering is more precise.
I used to take 30mph curved exit ramps at 75-80mph and be scared, hovering my foot over the brake pedal just in case I needed it. Now, I have complete confidence in my 80mph exit ramp and speed up the whole way through. So far so good

(I really am not that much of a manic though... not all the time anyway)

This post has been edited by hurley97: May 31, 2011 - 5:25 PM

[jordisonjr]

Anyone?

[Batman722]

The ones I've done they all just went right back in just as they came out.

[jordisonjr]

Great haha.
Does that mean the my subframe is stripped?
The bolt appears to be fine.

[zeus83]

anyone tried replacing the front SS bushes...i guess there are 2 of them...

my ST205 swap feels damn spongy at hight speeds and corners

[jordisonjr]

Has anyone had issues with these wearing out fairly quickly?
I installed min July 2011 (by the looks of of it, from my posts in this thread) and last night discovered that on the driver side wheel, the bushing towards the back of the car has quite a bit of play, and is causing a huge clunking noise. You can actually see the wheel move forward and back within the wheel well while accelerating and stopping, and I can recreate the sound/movement by simply shaking the wheel front to back with my hands, with the cars weight on the wheels. And I'm pretty frustrated that these are worn already.

When I replaced them, I torched out the existing bushing (leaving the ring inside the arm) and brought it to a mechanic to press in the new bushing. I'm not sure if the ring was left in the arm, or taken out, but from the looks of it, everyone that's done these bushings have taken the ring out. I also did NOT use the OEM crush tube within the bushing as Tigawoods did, but it seems no one else did either. Could either of these two things cause extra movement in the arm or per-mature wear? Or were the bushings just installed wrong? Right now it seems the rear bushing is the only one moving, but I've yet to put the car in the air and inspect closer.

I did a quick visual inspection, and the bushing appears to be intact, and not cracked or torn, so I'm a little confused as to why this would be causing noise after about 3.5-4 summers of regular driving and no track use. Any insight would be great, as I'd like to avoid replacing these bushings again. And if they do need replacing already, I will probably be going back to OEM which, IIRC, cost about 500 CDN, and not something I'd really like to do either.

[Batman722]

If you can move the arm/bushing then the bolt isn't tight enough.

We've had bushings in our Celicas for years without issue.

Where is it hitting exactly ?
Is the hole (for the long 19mm head bolt) elongated ? Does it tighten enough to keep the arm in place ?

[jordisonjr]

If you can move the arm/bushing then the bolt isn't tight enough.

We've had bushings in our Celicas for years without issue.

Where is it hitting exactly ?
Is the hole (for the long 19mm head bolt) elongated ? Does it tighten enough to keep the arm in place ?

Its the bolt towards the back of the car, that goes vertically, perpendicular to the ground.
It seems almost as if there is play between the inner sleeve of the bushing and the bolt that goes through there (hopefully that makes sense), allowing the arm to move forward and back slightly.
I haven't had a chance to take a closer look to see if the hole is elongated since the problem got worse about a week ago. The car came off the road on Monday, as I didn't want to risk farther damage, but the arm was still where it should be, with the slight forward/backward movement.

Tonight I'm going to tear into it and see what I can find.

[richee3]

Those bushings have never even looked right in my car. Neither set. I'll get pictures when I get home. It's either my limited slip going out or those bushings that have been causing serious front end issues for me for the last few years.

[jordisonjr]

Those bushings have never even looked right in my car. Neither set. I'll get pictures when I get home. It's either my limited slip going out or those bushings that have been causing serious front end issues for me for the last few years.

I've kind of always thought the same thing. They didn't really seem to seat right in the LCA, or the pocket (Rear bushing) where the control arm mounts. But since I had someone else press them in, I thought that's how they should look.
Ill be tearing into my car tonight, hopefully, and Ill get pictures when I do so.

This post has been edited by jordisonjr: Aug 12, 2015 - 1:01 PM

[richee3]

Sounds exactly like mine. Like the control arm sits on a downward angle and the bushing sits perfectly straight up and down with the bolt. I started having torque steer and bump steer issues shortly after I installed my first set of bushings. Dustin and Stef found my issue, which was a broken nut inside the subframe which had allowed the horizontal bolt on the passenger side to loosen slightly and let the control arm wiggle around. I cut my subframe open and got the nut and bolt tightened but the problem continued. Dustin thought the bolt had worn the hole in the subframe but everything looked great when I took it apart. Nonetheless, I got a new subframe, control arms, and bushings. My problem continues, exactly the same as before. I still have a popping noise when I first start rolling and it still torque steers. At this point, either my LSD is worn out and causing my issues or I coincidentally got two sets of bushings that ruined my car. I'm leaning towards the diff right now but it's funny that you bring this up because I have a popping noise similar to yours and I don't like the look of the rear bushings at all.

Literally everything else in my front end has been replaced. Motor mounts, steering rack, end links, ball joints, subframe, control arms, bushings, bearings, brakes, axles, everything. The trans/diff have stayed the same so it's either the poly bushings or the diff causing my issues.

[jordisonjr]

Sounds exactly like mine. Like the control arm sits on a downward angle and the bushing sits perfectly straight up and down with the bolt. I started having torque steer and bump steer issues shortly after I installed my first set of bushings. Dustin and Stef found my issue, which was a broken nut inside the subframe which had allowed the horizontal bolt on the passenger side to loosen slightly and let the control arm wiggle around. I cut my subframe open and got the nut and bolt tightened but the problem continued. Dustin thought the bolt had worn the hole in the subframe but everything looked great when I took it apart. Nonetheless, I got a new subframe, control arms, and bushings. My problem continues, exactly the same as before. I still have a popping noise when I first start rolling and it still torque steers. At this point, either my LSD is worn out and causing my issues or I coincidentally got two sets of bushings that ruined my car. I'm leaning towards the diff right now but it's funny that you bring this up because I have a popping noise similar to yours and I don't like the look of the rear bushings at all.

That sounds like how my bushing sits as well, and as far as I can remember, that's how it looked right from the start. My popping has evolved into the whole arm moving. The rear "branch" of the LCA seems to be the culprit. Because with the car on the ground, e brake on, if I push the front wheel forward and back, I can recreate the "popping" sound, which i can see is the rear "branch" of the LCA moving with in its bracket on the chassis, almost pivoting around the front two bushings of the LCA

And now that I think about it, my car does tend to pull every which way upon acceleration, but I always thought that was caused by having wider wheels, and the ruts in the road pulling the car. Maybe this could be related.

This post has been edited by jordisonjr: Aug 12, 2015 - 2:38 PM

[richee3]

I'm working on getting a replacement S54 but now you have me doubting whether that's the issue or whether we are having the same issue.

[jordisonjr]

Sorry man, Ill be sure to keep this thread updated with my findings.

[Batman722]

One thing I noticed on other bushings I've put in is the metal sleeve that goes inside the bushing (that the bolt goes through) is sometimes a bit too long.
On my 7 gen I shaved the end of it on my grinding wheel so the sleeve didn't stick out further than the bushing itself.
FYI.

[richee3]

It's actually sitting kind of decent right now but it normally looks a little worse than this.

[jordisonjr]

That's almost exactly how mine looks as well, but I wasn't able to capture it very well.
This is what mine look like with the car on the ground: (Not the greatest shots but this was what I was able to get)



And then once the car is in the air, and wheel off:



So I was fully planning ot be laying under the car all night yesturday, but Batmans comment got me thinking:

If you can move the arm/bushing then the bolt isn't tight enough.
Does it tighten enough to keep the arm in place ?

So the first thing I checked was if the bolt going through the bushing vertically into the chassis was tight enough. Sure enough, it was fairly loose, ~50 Ft Lbs or so. So I tightened it up to around 80 ft. lbs. and dropped the car back down.

Tried shaking the wheel back and fourth with my hands, which caused a pretty hefty clunk/movement in the arm before, and no movement or noise.
So I went for a drive, accelerating pretty hard and stopping pretty hard, and no noise yet. I stopped extremely hard once to try and re create the noise, and there was a small pop, which I think was the LCA re-seating to where it should be, because it only happened once, and hasn't yet happened again after testing.

So I drove the car to work this morning, and it seems to have solved the issue. I'm not completely convinced that this was the only problem, but I'm going to continue driving it for now and hope for the best. I'll keep this thread updated in a week or so if this is the solution, or if the issue comes back.

This post has been edited by jordisonjr: Aug 13, 2015 - 8:36 AM

[chacha]

Sorry to bring up and old post, but need clarification. Bringing this thread up, I'm confused, did anyone put the crush tube oem in or use the thicker ones TCB UK make or the one BRD makes sold on BRD or GT4-Play? Can I install without using the crush tube into the metal sleeves of the polyurethane mounts?