GT-4 vs GT, extra HP in GT-4 Options

[erics1one]

Anyone have the weight specs for these models we're referring to?

[redtcel]

2 turboinduction.
i don't know if it was a red top or black i never spoke with the driver of the SS III but it was a late model 'beams' imported, so i think it was the 210 bhp...
            I was driving 'my' 1986 GT-Four (with winter tires) 

you were driving your 86 gt-4 with winter tires? the 86 gt 4 wasnt rated at 250 horse was it? wasnt it more like 225 or less? in fact the 86 is the fourth gen so a celica with a beams motor and your 86 gt4 are going to be very similar in power because the power rating on the older gt4's were lower. if it were a 94-99 gt-4 it would have pulled a lot harder. am i right or am i completely off the mark here?

[saleeka]

gt-fours debued in 87 i thought, and all the 4th gens make 185 PS (approx 183 hp)

[Jehuty]

Take the pain?  The thing that takes the pain is the road.  That and the transmission.  However, since the AWD tranny was meant for that, it wont break.  I've never seen or heard of anyone in a AWD that broke their trannies because the wheels dont spin.  I guess in my experience, I'd be more worried about burning the clutch out in a FWD trying to keep its tires on the road.

I just dont see how so many people are bais about an AWD without owning one.  An AWD is the biggest beast ever on the streets.  The reason the Celica went AWD was because the FWD model couldn't handle the power of the 3SGTE.  Simple as that.

-Ti
[right][snapback]228226[/snapback][/right]

The clutch, the tranny, 3 diffs and 4 shafts. Im talking about an all out launch here. The parts are strong, but not indestructable, and even if they don't break immediatly, there is some accelerated wear associated with this kind of treatment. I wouldn't do it to my car! And I think many feel the same.

From my experience, the really fast launches from awd cars are produced from hi-rpm clutch dumps. And Ive heard plenty of stories about transmissions getting ruined under these conditions, although Ive never had the pleasure of seeing it in person. =) Even new evo owners are busting halfshafts here and there.

Somewhere between a baby start and a full on dump you can still get a good start, but it takes skill, and still isn't as fierce as just abusing the drivetrain.

[Kwanza26]

Anyone have the weight specs for these models we're referring to?
[right][snapback]228340[/snapback][/right]

Estimates are pretty easy to make. Consider the ST185 Alltrac weighed about 3200-3400 pounds and the 5th gen GTS weighing about 2700-2800... a weight estimate can be made. The SSIII should weigh no more than a USDM GT (~2600) so it'll be logical to assume the ST205 should weigh in the 3000-3200 pound neighborhood... maybe a little bit lighter.

[erics1one]

So weight reduction on a GT, with a beefed up 3SGTE, and you're out in front?

[Kwanza26]

So weight reduction on a GT, with a beefed up 3SGTE, and you're out in front?
[right][snapback]228435[/snapback][/right]

No... real-world situations are different.

[maikl]

hi magic NO COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mr_E]

ST205 is significantly *lighter* than a ST185.

And on a real road, I'm sorry to say that the SS-III wouldn't see which way it went.

From a rolling second gear pull a 2ZZ powered 7th Gen is close in a straight line. Good power and low weight and transmission losses.

Again, chuck in some corners and you can't argue with AWD poise and turbo shove.

[popstar]

Sorry guy's

tipo big time it's a 1996 model 205

sorry about that, check the photos on site .....

[_rz_]

Hi eveybody. Thoudht I'll add my 2 cents to this discussion.

First of - you DO feel VVTi kick in. At least I did. At about 5-6K RPM you really feel it GO.
Then the specs SS-I/SS-II/SS-III/GT-FOUR

Drive: FF/FF/FF/FULL 4WD
Transmission: 5 speed manual/5 speed manual/5 speed manual/5 speed manual
Engine volume (Cubic sentimeters): 1998 / 1998 / 1998 / 1998
Frame: E-ST202-BLMGK / E-ST202-BLMVF / E-ST202-BLMZF / E-ST205-BLMVZ
Price in Tokyo, Yen (x1000) 1813 (~$15100) / 2181 (~$18100) / 2448 (~$20400) / 3302 (~$27500)

Dimensions:

Exterior: (LengthхWidthхHeight), mm 4435 x 1750 x 1305 / 4435 x 1750 x 1305 / 4435 x 1750 x 1305 / 4420 x 1750 x 1305
Interior: (LengthхWidthхHeight), mm 1735 x 1450 x 1100 / 1735 x 1450 x 1100 / 1735 x 1450 x 1100 / 1735 x 1450 x 1100
Wheel base: mm 2535 / 2535 / 2535 / 2535
Distance between front and rear wheels: mm 1510, 1490 / 1510,1490 / 1510,1490 / 1510,1485
Clearence: mm 145 / 145 / 145 / 145
Weight: kg 1160 / 1200 / 1210 / 1390
Turn radius: m 5.2 / 5.2 / 5.5 / 5.6
Fuel tank volume: liters 60 / 60 / 60 / 68

Engine

Volume (cubic centimiters): 1998 / 1998 / 1998 / 1998
Engine type: 3S-FE / 3S-GE / 3S-GE / 3S-GTE
Bhp@rpm: 140 ps (102.97 kw) @ 6000 rpm / 200 ps (147.10 kw)@7000 rpm / 200 ps (147.10 kw)@7000 rpm / 255 ps (187.55 kw)@6000 rpm
Torque: N*m*(kg*m)@rpm: 19.0 kg*m (186.33 N*m)@4400 rpm / 21.0 kg*m (205.94 N*m)@6000 rpm / 21.0 kg*m (205.94 N*m)@6000 rpm / 31.0 kg*m (304.01 N*m)@4000 rpm
Killograms per HP: 8.29 / 6 / 6.05 / 5.45

Engine type Serial 4 cylinder DOHC16 valve / Serial 4 cylinder DOHC16 valve / Serial 4 cylinder DOHC16 valve / Serial 4 cylinder DOHC16 valve / IC turbo
Additional engine info: -- / VVT-i / VVT-i / --
Fuel delivery: EFI / EFI / EFI / EFI
Turbo: No / No / No / Turbo with intercooler
Fuel type: Unleaded regular gasoline / Unleaded premium gasoline / Unleaded premium gasoline / Unleaded premium gasoline
Compression: 9.5 / 11 / 11 / 8.5
Piston diameter: mm 86 / 86 / 86 / 86
Stroke (???): mm 86 / 86 / 86 / 86
Fuel consumption (City), liters/100 km (new car): 7.3 / 7.9 / 7.9 / 9.4
Highway, liters/100 km (new car):

Front wheels: 195/65r14 89s / 205/55r15 87v / 205/55r15 87v / 215/50R16 90V
Rear wheels: 195/65r14 89s / 205/55r15 87v / 205/55r15 87v / 215/50R16 90V
Front brakes: Ventilated disk / Ventilated disk / Ventilated disk / Ventilated disk
Rear brakes: Disk / Disk / Disk / Ventilated disk
Suspension type: Strut type coil spring / Strut type coil spring / Strut type coil spring / Strut type coil spring
Rear suspension: Strut type coil spring / Strut type coil spring / Strut type coil spring / Strut type coil spring

ABS: yes / yes/ yes / yes
LSD: no / no / yes / yes

AC: Manual / Full automatic / Full automatic / Full automatic

Sorry for my bad english or any mistakes in translation.

So as you can all see the GT-FOUR has half a killogram of weight less per HP from its closest competitor the SSIII.

So Peter don't worry you have a great car. But we can trade cars if you want

[recycle]

so from what u are saying an ss2 is faster than ss3

[_rz_]

so from what u are saying an ss2 is faster than ss3
[right][snapback]230672[/snapback][/right]

Hmmm..... nice point. We'll try racing all of those cars together on the next meet and film a small video. But theres a chance that a SSII is faster than a SSIII but when you start to think about LSD and stuff

[Kwanza26]

Hi eveybody. Thoudht I'll add my 2 cents to this discussion.

First of - you DO feel VVTi kick in. At least I did. At about 5-6K RPM you really feel it GO.
[right][snapback]230659[/snapback][/right]

Good info... I'll have to add this to my files... ;]

HOWEVER... you do not feel VVT-i "kick"... VVT-i is on as soon as 2000 rpms and is constantly on and adjusting... ;] Pulling harder on the top-end is the normal action of a sporty engine.

[97sccelica]

Take the pain?  The thing that takes the pain is the road.  That and the transmission.  However, since the AWD tranny was meant for that, it wont break.  I've never seen or heard of anyone in a AWD that broke their trannies because the wheels dont spin.  I guess in my experience, I'd be more worried about burning the clutch out in a FWD trying to keep its tires on the road.

I just dont see how so many people are bais about an AWD without owning one.  An AWD is the biggest beast ever on the streets.  The reason the Celica went AWD was because the FWD model couldn't handle the power of the 3SGTE.  Simple as that.

-Ti
[right][snapback]228226[/snapback][/right]

The clutch, the tranny, 3 diffs and 4 shafts. Im talking about an all out launch here. The parts are strong, but not indestructable, and even if they don't break immediatly, there is some accelerated wear associated with this kind of treatment. I wouldn't do it to my car! And I think many feel the same.

From my experience, the really fast launches from awd cars are produced from hi-rpm clutch dumps. And Ive heard plenty of stories about transmissions getting ruined under these conditions, although Ive never had the pleasure of seeing it in person. =) Even new evo owners are busting halfshafts here and there.

Somewhere between a baby start and a full on dump you can still get a good start, but it takes skill, and still isn't as fierce as just abusing the drivetrain.
[right][snapback]228401[/snapback][/right]

a quick slip launch will get nearly the same results as a dump launch and it only puts more stress on the part thats cheaper to replace(clutch $300, tranny $3000)

[popstar]

Sorry for my bad english or any mistakes in translation.

So as you can all see the GT-FOUR has half a killogram of weight less per HP from its closest competitor the SSIII.

So Peter don't worry you have a great car. But we can trade cars if you want     
[right][snapback]230659[/snapback][/right]

Hey buddy, don't worry about the translation...
it's better than mine is the other way

yeah that's the info i wanted guy's, now we all know the numbers for 'stock' cars, as trying to work out anything with cars that have been tuned is just not going to happen.....

yeah Zhenya, you can drive my baby, no problems at all with that, but lets what for the summer to arrange the promised race

[Lenny_mc]

ive got an ss111 and there is no way that it will keep up with a gt4
the vvt sure does kick in at about 4500 and you can feel it (kinda like a 2 stroke bike powerband).
0 - 60 times for ss111 are 6.7, gt4 is about 5.5 i think. unrestricted (all jap cars are limited to 112 mph) the ss3 should do about 145. think the gt4 is 155 mph.

the ss111 is a fast car, but not as fast as the gt4

[Lenny_mc]

@ kwanza - you ever driven a beams? the whole point of vvt is that the cam profile is aletered somehow to give better low end drive with top end performance. the vvt on the beams kicks in at 4500 +_ 200 rpm and you certainly can feel it. Hell under half normal acce;leration in the wet the thing will spin up when it hits 4500. under hard acceleration in the wet it wil spin up in 3rd when it hits the vvt (at about 75 mph)

@ rz - the ss2 had the same 3sge motor as the gt model with about 177 bhp. The ss3 has the beams motor which is 197 bhp. both have superstrut suspension (SS) as does the gt4.

[Lenny_mc]

the beams motor is a great motor and im sure with some work it would kick ass but even with the ptw difference the gt4 will kick its ass.

Actually toyota used the beams motor as their base motor for the corolla wrc cars.

[Mr_E]

Actually toyota used the beams motor as their base motor for the corolla wrc cars.
[right][snapback]230994[/snapback][/right]

They did indeed.

SSIIIs get superstruts as standard. They were an expensive option on SSIIs