7a supercharger?? Options

[robman5]

hey everyone, ive been driving for a month and the 7a is already making me yawwn....the engine has 110xxx, so thats probally way to high to turbo w/o having a ton of problems with reliability...im too poor to engine swap...so is a supercharger a possibility at all?i just read in a post they dont add engine stress, im just looking for more proformance boost then wasting my money in bolt on's thanks.

[94Toy]

well anytime you add boost to an engine you add stress, so with eiter a supercharger to turbo their is going to be stress. As for supercharging a 7a i would think you would spend a lot more money on a supercharger because from what I've heard they are a pain to do a custom job on, I would advise you to get a turbo because less money and more power. This is just my opinion though.

[robman5]

yeah turbo would be great, but could my engine handle it?110.000 miles.....105000 of them were driven by a chick though....u think id run into too many reliability issues?/blow my 7a up

[zigy]

-well i don't wanna make fun of your engine (cause i have the same one), but 7afe is like one of the worst Toyota engines that they put on the market...
-first of all before you do any kind of BOOST (turbo, supercharger, nos), I would have some import shop rebuilt the engine, just changing the internals it shouldn't go more then $800...and it will feel brand spankin new engine....
-the best option after you get the engine rebuilt is NOS, ...WHY>???....you might ask... well its "cheap" (best hp per $ ----- 50 horsepower for about $500) and its not always ON like turbo/supercharger, you only use it when you need it ( so if some honda "got rice" moron is talking ****, then you turn it on....and magic....spank his ass....)
-second option would be a turbo w/intercooler and custome piping (cost you around $2,500), but then you are always gonna add some parts cause you are never gonna get the right pressure/boost levels bla bla bla so then you are gonna be adding $1,000 in small **** like better wastegate, blow-off valve, turbo timer and stupid **** that doesn't add hp)
-and third option is no option at all - "custom SUPERCHARGER" , no way superchargers are belt driven so unless the engineer that made the 7afe is doing it - i would stay away from it - DON't even think about custom one without $5,000....stay away from supercharger

ok enough talking for tonight,,,,,

GOT BOOST?

[FallenHero]

I fear I caused this...

Supercharging a car is the best thing to do for constant performance. They don't cause near the engine stress as a turbo. That said, it would be almost impossible to get a SC to work on our cars. The only way to even think of doing it is to run the charger off of the accessory belt, which is a big nono. But is worked on the 4a, so I figure it's doable. But you would come out sheaper with the GZE engine. You would also have more (and more reliable) power

[97sccelica]

QUOTE (zigy @ Apr 4, 2003 - 9:55 PM)

-well i don't wanna make fun of your engine (cause i have the same one), but 7afe is like one of the worst Toyota engines that they put on the market... -first of all before you do any kind of BOOST (turbo, supercharger, nos), I would have some import shop rebuilt the engine, just changing the internals it shouldn't go more then $800...and it will feel brand spankin new engine.... -the best option after you get the engine rebuilt is NOS, ...WHY>???....you might ask... well its "cheap" (best hp per $ ----- 50 horsepower for about $500) and its not always ON like turbo/supercharger, you only use it when you need it ( so if some honda "got rice" moron is talking ****, then you turn it on....and magic....spank his ass....) -second option would be a turbo w/intercooler and custome piping (cost you around $2,500), but then you are always gonna add some parts cause you are never gonna get the right pressure/boost levels bla bla bla so then you are gonna be adding $1,000 in small **** like better wastegate, blow-off valve, turbo timer and stupid **** that doesn't add hp) -and third option is no option at all - "custom SUPERCHARGER" , no way superchargers are belt driven so unless the engineer that made the 7afe is doing it - i would stay away from it - DON't even think about custom one without $5,000....stay away from supercharger ok enough talking for tonight,,,,, GOT BOOST?

funny, those are the reasons why i dont like nitrous. it may not be always on, but even for the few seconds it is on, it is very damaging without internals made to withstand the *sudden* increase in power.\

and with turbos, at cruising, they hardly cause stress, infact, it is actually easier on the engine. it is when you press the pedal down hard that is adds stress and even then, it isnt sudden like nitrous.

but i agree on the SC though, sure it would be cool to have and they do put less stress on the engine but they are less efficient and where a different trubo is made for every size engine, SC's are not meant for a wide variety of engines. use the 4agze SC on the 7afe and it wont make much boost(the engine is bigger and the SC has to work harder to fill the extra volume) sure the power is instant, but isnt the ability to turn up the power by the turning of a screw while having it come 1 second later much better? if you get a bigger SC, it will take more power from the 7a to turn it, causing even lower efficiency.

and what everyone has said about the cost is right, it will cost way more than a turbo setup despit all the little **** that doesnt add hp but increases turbo life and engine life.

besides, imo, i think SC's should be left to the bigger engines. just put on a turbo, the exhaust gas is goin out anyway, why not put it to a good use? with an SC it takes power to make power.

[FallenHero]

Ebay has tons of cheap turbo equipment. Look there.

[chris102984]

how about a headswap? take the top end of a 4agze and slap it onto your 7afe... be sure to grab the pistons too. then you'll have to do some wiring... possibly add a hood scoop for intercooler clearence... and viola, you have a supercharged engine for not too much cash (a 7agze if you will). and theres always the bigger pulley for more boost. but, itll tear the transmission up quite quickly, as opposed to a turbo. its always got that shock of the boost kicking in from the instant you hit the gas, it will mess up the transmission more than a turbo, the turbo allows the transmission to get goin before it hits it with the boost, a lot less stressful.

This post has been edited by chris102984: Apr 6, 2003 - 2:56 PM

[FallenHero]

The headswap is virtually imposible, but more than that, it is far too costly. To do it you would have tp have a few engines lying around, and a great amount of knowledge of welding and EFI wiring. + a stand alone FMU. All this boils down to.... Get a 4agze, have 170 Hp, and be happy.

Turbocharged engines generally last about 60k miles less than any other form of aspirated engine. (or so I'm told) Turbo's yield great amounts of heat.

[chris102984]

really? from what i read... a headswap would be easier than a total engine swap in the end, you just need specific parts... but none are very rare at all.

[Charlie97L]

QUOTE (chris102984 @ Apr 7, 2003 - 10:13 AM)

really? from what i read... a headswap would be easier than a total engine swap in the end, you just need specific parts... but none are very rare at all.

noooo, not true. i mean, if you want, go for it, but you're dealing with a 15 year old engine here. the 4agze in the US was last seen in 89, and if you get a JDM engine to do the headswap, just do the swap.

as to the complexity... you have to fabricate brackets for a lot of stuff. A/C, power steering, alternator and distributor all need custom brackets, cuz on the mr2 SC, that stuff is either not there, or bolted to the engine bay, not the engine. you'll also need a custom timing belt if i remember right. it's just a big big headache. and you're right, you will tear up the tranny. you can get a 4agze tranny, but you'll have to have a custom clutch to mate it to the engine block... and so on, i could go on for like an hour.

[robman5]

sooo.....basically swapping in the 4agze would be harder than swapping in a 3gte on a ST?or cheeper?thanks for all the info everyone.

[FallenHero]

Swapping the 4agze (or 4age black top AE101 6spd!!!) is cheaper and easier than a 3s swap on a ST. BUT, are you really going to be happy with 160-180hp? Why not put another grand or so in and get 260?

[chris102984]

timing belt for head swap... porsche 924 or 944... ive read probably too much on it, oversimplified in my head. for me a 3sgte is totally out of the question due to funds... and ive got a corolla, not a celica... although it has the same 7afe in it that the st has. so i really wanted to drop in a 4agze... i figured the supercharger would end up fun and full of torque, but then itd invovle a transmission swap too because ive got a p.o.s. automatic. i could go on for hours whining about what i want to do to my car, but in all reality probably never will.

[macavely]

QUOTE (FallenHero @ Apr 7, 2003 - 10:33 PM)

Swapping the 4agze (or 4age black top AE101 6spd!!!) is cheaper and easier than a 3s swap on a ST. BUT, are you really going to be happy with 160-180hp? Why not put another grand or so in and get 260?

ok from the research that i have done you can get 4agze to do the same as the 3sgte when it comes to power. the 3sgte is used more simply cuase it's a lighter engine.

i just had to get that out.

[FallenHero]

QUOTE (macavely @ Apr 7, 2003 - 9:47 PM)

QUOTE (FallenHero @ Apr 7, 2003 - 10:33 PM) Swapping the 4agze (or 4age black top AE101 6spd!!!) is cheaper and easier than a 3s swap on a ST.  BUT, are you really going to be happy with 160-180hp?  Why not put another grand or so in and get 260? ok from the research that i have done you can get 4agze to do the same as the 3sgte when it comes to power. the 3sgte is used more simply cuase it's a lighter engine. i just had to get that out.

I've never heard that, but with the CR on the gze, I believe it. That would take some custome work though. It would also take removing the SC and adding a turbo.

[zigy]

I'm sorry FallenHero, I like you a lot, you made some nice posts, about me too, here and there, but POST_WHORE means anything to you.... LOL

[Kwanza]

QUOTE (macavely @ Apr 7, 2003 - 9:47 PM)

ok from the research that i have done you can get 4agze to do the same as the 3sgte when it comes to power. the 3sgte is used more simply cuase it's a lighter engine. i just had to get that out.

The 4A is a far lighter engine than the 3s.... and no...the 4AGZE cannot possibly make anywhere near the power of a 3SGTE...I don't know where you're hearing your info from...

Let's look at the two...

4AGZE (1.6 liter) smaller engine, s/c... limited boost because it runs off of a belt and a pulley. With overdrive pulleys, and engine mods...I'd say it can't push more than 300 whp... and that's even a bit exaggerated IMO.

3SGTE (2.0 Liter) larger motor...heavier... it's a steel block damn it! Turboed... with upgraded turbos and a well built motor... pushing 20-25 psi can grab you 500-600 whp... heh... and that's not even the most you can boost...

[Guest_Matthew_*]

ok you are off about 200-400hp.... yea mac is kinda right about this..you can upgrade the supercharger and lots of other parts. you can also supercharge and turbo charge...but stock no the power obviously is not the same. if you only need about 180hp go for the 4a-gze but if you want more by just upping boost
then go for the 3s-gte.

[Kwanza]

QUOTE (igotta5S-FEturbo @ Apr 11, 2003 - 12:10 AM)

ok you are off about 200-400hp.... yea mac is kinda right about this..you can upgrade the supercharger and lots of other parts.  you can also supercharge and turbo charge...but stock no the power obviously is not the same. if you only need about 180hp go for the 4a-gze but if you want more by just upping boost then go for the 3s-gte.

I thought he was talking more about the full potential of the s/c v.s the turbo motor. If you're saying s/c and turbo on the same motor...well... that's a completely different story. I was refering more to the max output of the 4AGZE v.s. the max output of the 3SGTE assuming you'll stay with each's factory induction... the numbers I put up are only shots in the dark...but possible for both motors. Boost wise, the turbo wins. Then again... I'm thinking more turbo vs. supercharger...

But I still think the 4A is lighter than the 3S...=]

This post has been edited by Kwanza: Apr 11, 2003 - 4:08 AM