A Challenge to the community Options

[BLADDER_MASTER]

the point is to challenge the community to change, not condemn it for being monotonous in its approach. lots of things have changed on this board since it was first opened, it is my feeling this is the next step to becoming a more educated and informational driven board.

Well they won't change if they're not willing to do research for themselves and become more educated. Some would much rather have the answers spoon-fed to them instead of looking for it themselves.

[boosted_K2]

the point is to challenge the community to change, not condemn it for being monotonous in its approach.


"Well they won't change if they're not willing to do research for themselves and become more educated. Some would much rather have the answers spoon-fed to them instead of looking for it themselves."

so you're saying it's a fact that no one will change, eh?

[BLADDER_MASTER]

the point is to challenge the community to change, not condemn it for being monotonous in its approach.


"Well they won't change if they're not willing to do research for themselves and become more educated. Some would much rather have the answers spoon-fed to them instead of looking for it themselves."

so you're saying it's a fact that no one will change, eh?

I'm saying that the forum won't change if people won't change.

[boosted_K2]

if you want to debate it more we can use PM or IM, the topic isnt really about debating if the forum will change or not, debating it wont help one way or the other.

[Kwanza26]

I agree... too often people want and follow others off of cliffs without ever asking 'why'... although boosted_k2 might not condemn many of the community, I will, short of naming names. Sometimes I wonder why people so enthusiastically preach "3SGTE" or "it'll drop right in" or whatever topic, yet the only mods they've ever produced or experienced themselves are a muffler and some taillights? There's a difference between 'free discussion' and 'out of the box' ideas and simply repeating 'information' that lingers from person to person (remember that game telephone?)... unfortunately when 1/2 of the community are "internet mechanics" who've honed their skills from scrolling text and vague pictures, this 'information' is worth nothing. This is what's called "hear-say" in court and isn't permissable as evidence... therefore... some should make an effort to simply... well... shut the hell up. Research is easy and I hear this google thing is really intuitive and easy to use... so why not make the effort to feed yourself information sometimes the hard way... instead of letting someone else feed you mis-information the easy way. Like they say... you get what you pay for.

[CelicaGT04]

If people here aren't willing to search for the answers to their Celica-related question, what makes you think they're going to search through books to help themselves be more educated. I'm sorry but this forum aggravates me often because the amount of mis-information being spread about things. You have people replying to topics with info that someone else said. Problem is, how does that person know that info is correct or not. Most of the time they don't bother to look for themselves to see if that is a fact or opinion. Like for instance, the most common reply to a "What engine should I swap?" topic is "3S-GTE". The people that ask that question shouldn't make a topic to see what engine he/she should swap. He/she should do his own research to see which engine will satisfy his own needs. He/she shouldn't get an engine that everybody else is telling them to get, because more than like the people that reply to him/her are basing their opinion on what everyone else has told them to get.

Research, it is an action that a lot of people here do not seem to do.

I have to agree with MOST of what you said. The only thing i have to disagree with is what you said about the 3sgte swap as your example. Your saying that people SHOULDNT ask what engine he/she should look into putting into their celica, but tell me what engines came stock in the US model GT and ST, its not the 3sgte. So asking questions in my opinion on the topic is quite ok. THAT IS AFTER they have read the stickys which will inform then on OTHER swaps done by other members meaning other members OPINIONS and EXPERIENCES on how their swapped was performed and completed. You would peobably be suprised at the amount of research people put in, but i will agree some people just want it handed to them on a platter. But if you really think about it, the 3sgte swaps in the stickys are as close to the facts as we have and almost everyday i see something new about how you can better the swaps and how they get easier and easier.
That is just my opinion, i think everyone in this forum has the free will to say what they wish and if they say something irrational then someone will correct them, its as simple as that. Like i said earlier if everyone knew everything about the celica there would be absolutely no point for the forums. I hope this causes no controversy it is just my opinion on the topic and if you dont like it pay no attention to it.

Mario

[Kwanza26]

I have to agree with MOST of what you said. The only thing i have to disagree with is what you said about the 3sgte swap as your example. Your saying that people SHOULDNT ask what engine he/she should look into putting into their celica, but tell me what engines came stock in the US model GT and ST, its not the 3sgte. So asking questions in my opinion on the topic is quite ok.

I think you misunderstand what Bladder means. He means simply... if you're serious about doing a swap... act serious about it. Do as much of your research on your own because no-one over the internet is gonna do the swap for you. Prepare yourself. This has little to do with asking people's opinions or asking of people's experience. Just coming in here and asking typical swap questions not only shows you're not as serious as you claim, but you're ill ready to do a true swap yourself.

THAT IS AFTER they have read the stickys which will inform then on OTHER swaps done by other members meaning other members OPINIONS and EXPERIENCES on how their swapped was performed and completed. You would peobably be suprised at the amount of research people put in, but i will agree some people just want it handed to them on a platter. But if you really think about it, the 3sgte swaps in the stickys are as close to the facts as we have and almost everyday i see something new about how you can better the swaps and how they get easier and easier.
That is just my opinion, i think everyone in this forum has the free will to say what they wish and if they say something irrational then someone will correct them, its as simple as that. Like i said earlier if everyone knew everything about the celica there would be absolutely no point for the forums. I hope this causes no controversy it is just my opinion on the topic and if you dont like it pay no attention to it.

There isn't any real way a person's whole experience can be seriously translated on paper. If it were possible, we wouldn't see all of these topics about the 3SGTE "bolting up" or "Dropping in"... because that's not even 1/2 of the swap process. The purpose of asking questions and people's experience is merely to prepare oneself. It gives you an idea of what to expect... but unless you swap engines for a living... ala dr. tweak... you cannot fully prepare yourself.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

if you want to debate it more we can use PM or IM, the topic isnt really about debating if the forum will change or not, debating it wont help one way or the other.

I'm not trying to debate for people to change. I'm saying for some people in this forum to change the way they look for the answers to their questions. If they do research, they'll become more educated. When more people become more educated, the likelihood of false information will decrease. Which is what you're fighting for to do.

[boosted_K2]

ok cool, i must have misunderstood what exactly you were getting at with what you were saying. anyway this topic seems to be kinda heading toward a good discussion. continue

[airfron]

instead of making a new post to find information on a subject i am looking for (since every modification i have thought of doing has most definitely been done time and time again by others) i use the search feature and when i see s post where someone has asked a question where i know there is another topic on the same question i will most likely post a link to that original post where i located the information

if everyone wouldto be willing to take the initiative and use the search function properly and educate themselves i think a large majority of the uneducated posts and actually a large amount of topics posted would diminish greatly

i feel as if something else that is causing a distress to the community is those who intentionally flame people for answering a question with a response that they do not agree with, or an opinion stated by an individual on the topic. insults cause people who actually might be able to help to not want to post for fear of getting their post torn apart even though they might lead to the same end result. this is a forum as GT04 stated earlier.. and we should be able to act like mature people and respect other people's opinions without bashing them

sorry i feel like i'm ranting.. disregard my statements if you disagree with them

[malpaso]

Here is my point of view:

1. "I am not saying I know everything" ...amen
There are just two groups of answers. "IMHO" answers and "advice" answers. When I know something for sure (because I'm good at it), it's (IMHO) "duty" help other people who just don't know. I belive it's right help each other in one community of people with same interest... We all heve our celicas and we all want just the best for it, am I right? And if I'm not sure about anything, it's not wrong at least write opinion... (else why English has words like "I belive", "I think", "In my point of view", etc.???).

2. "posting incorrect information" thing
My aim is all people here will think like: "Malpaso wrote it, it's good advice" or "Malpaso wrote it, he know what he doing". You know what I'm talking about? It's called reputation. And I will not do anything what should harm that... It's somethong like personal pride. Even if internet forums are "faceless" there still is (in my opinion ) some kind of identity and that identity has own value.

3. "WHY you are doing a certain modification" part
Here I don't understand if it's general question or it's something factual. However I have made some (a lot ) external modification on my celica because I love SS-III celica type. I will never have real one, now I know that... so I want make my ST leastwise look like SS-III celica... I have made also some non-SS-III interior modifications... Why? I want my celi looks unique. You can belive me there is no other celica with same look like mine . That's all

[boosted_K2]

responding to malpaso's #3

what i'm getting at really doesnt partain to exterior or styling modifications because those are done for show and everyone has their own style and personality... what im talking about is performance modifications and understanding why and how they are helping your performance.