deciding on an engine to swap. HELP!, currently 7afe, but wut next?? Options

[cjh4l22]

OK so here's the scoop. currently i have a 95st w/5spd and a 7afe engine that is leaking a little oil and has just under 260k on it. so, by x-mas i'd like to swap it w/something b/c i'm afraid the engine won't make it till summer plus i'm asking santa for x-tra power this christmas. lol SO I'm asking for info from the wonderfully knowledgeable ppl here on 6gc.net I need to know which engine would be my best choice based on the following criteria... a) ease of the swap b) power gained b/c like i said, i would like an increase c) ease of turbo later and d) cost effective. b/c i have been considering a 3sgTe but it just seems too expensive for a poor college student. furthermore, i was hoping for something w/an equal if not higher displacement than the 7afe (1.8L) but i have heard good things about the 4age(20v) which is only 1.6L. If anyone would be willing to enlighten me, please do so and i'd be forever greatful. thanks.

Oh, and no i don't plan on racing this car or anything, just building up a car thats got some guts, ya know? something w/some spunk. anywho, thanks for your help.

[UKcelicaKev]

Beams all the way, i too had a 7afe in my celica when i bought it, i ve changed it to a beams and OMG its like awesome.

There are a lot of things to change besides the engine. SUch as tranny, radiator, accelerator cable, gear linkage, brakes inc rotors also add a strut brace to real feel the power.

I am sure there are loads of guys here who can advise on other swaps but its beams for me.

Kev

[jdg371]

simple swap with more power would be a 20Valve.

[InfamousChappy]

I'm with this guy...I NEED a swap like no body's business...7AFE isn't cutting it...3SGTE is looking too expensive. How much power does this BEAMS you speak of have? How easy is the swap?

[Celiracer18]

if you have the 7A and you want some power but an easier swap go with a 20v 4AGE silver or black top

if you have a GT (which you dont) the 3S would be an easier swap and yield more power.

but if you dont mind the little bit of extra work the 3S would be the way to go and a 2ndgen 3s would be about the same price as a 4AGE

ill let you decide which of the 3 motors youd like to put in

silvertop 4AGE = rated at like 160 but thats over rated
blacktop 4AGE = 165
2nd gen 3S = 225hp
im pretty sure these numbers are right but i could be wrong however they are somewhat right.

there havent been many BEAMS swaps so i think that wouldnt be an option because its an expensive motor to start with and it might have a lot of complications during the swap and also wouldnt be worth it if your going to turbo down the road

IMO get a 20v 4AGE

This post has been edited by Celiracer18: Oct 26, 2006 - 5:02 PM

[lagos]

silver tops put out something like 120hp at the wheels, dont they?

[FallenHero]

be realistic please gents: Granted, a silvertop swap (or black top) would be very exotic, as would a 3sge swap... but neither engine is going to be economical as compared to a re-built turbo 7afe... not to mention a rebuilt turbo 7afe will be more reliable, easier to get parts for, easier to trouble shoot, and likely last longer if properly maintained.

The question here is this: what will you be doing with the car to need power, and how much power do you want?

[UKcelicaKev]

I ve already done a 3SGE Swap into my 7AFE no problem but i suggest you get a donor car as you need loads of bits and pieces.

If ya want any info feel free to pm me, i have just swapped that 3SGE for a BEAMS and with a few wiring probs its running as of today.

Kev

[netrata]

UKCelicaKev is right on that one. If you can get a hold of a front clip with the engine you want, it would make things alot easier because the parts you would need is already there on the clip. If you take things like the center crossmember, the p/s components, etc., making it more possible to convert from a 7afe to a 3sge or better. But if you are looking for a drop-in engine, any 4age engine will do. It depends on what kind of power you are looking for. You can get a 4agze from an early ae101, which produces more torque than any of the 20v or n/a 16v 4age. It will be a little more work, but if don't mind it than go for that swap. Keep in mind, there are alot of aftermarket performance and maintenance parts out there for the 16v 4age, so you can always upgrade that engine to produce more power and torque If you prefer a 20v 4age, then I would highly suggest going with a blacktop. Reason why is because you can still use the current MAP sensor that's already equipped on your car, it produces more hp than a 20v silvertop, and better yet, you can run individual velocity stacks per ITB without any mods.

[cjh4l22]

Beams all the way, i too had a 7afe in my celica when i bought it, i ve changed it to a beams and OMG its like awesome.

There are a lot of things to change besides the engine. SUch as tranny, radiator, accelerator cable, gear linkage, brakes inc rotors also add a strut brace to real feel the power.

I am sure there are loads of guys here who can advise on other swaps but its beams for me.

Kev

yea sorry i looked at those engines, and yes they are THE **** but they also run like 3k's a piece and that just won't fly.

[InfamousChappy]

So whatever I go with..It's gonna be hard and expensive. I went to a tuner shop today..and the guy basically shot down my idea. Keep in my mind this is a honda shop and he knows jack about Toyotas I'm sure but he brought some things to my attention.
1. Even with a full uncut wiring harness, you go from right to left hand drive and it involves alot of soldering.
2. He said something about the pressure plate not matching up or some BS but I'm sure it's false.
3. Angles of the drive axles would be wrong..
This guy was pretty rude, and a know-it-all.The fact that these guys charge 65 an hour to do work sickens me. I kinda wanted to let them know an acronym for CIVIC. Clear Indication VTEC Is Crap.

Apparently he had a kid in earlier this fall wanting a 3SGTE swap and it didn't work..So now there's a 3s on the south side of my town...So..If i can find this motor...This cuts out the expensive shipping cost.

If I could get this motor..Then go find a GT in a junk yard and salvage the trans, axles and motor mounts all I would lack would be a wiring harness correct?

Whatever the case..I want my car to have a little ass in it. The 7AFE and it's dimunitive 100hp irritates me..And rebuilding and turbocharging it sounds like a recipe for disaster and more broken piston rods.

Every answer I get just breeds more questions. If it wouldn't be such an effin hastle I'd think about gettin a new ride.

[cjh4l22]

I also like the 20v 4age. and i've been told the blacktop is a better choice than the silver? Furthermore i'd rather not do a rebuild of my 7afe although i've been told its one of the easier cars to turbo. how difficult is it to turbo the 4age 20v? and it has a smaller displacement than all the rest, should i be worried about that? i mean, like i said, i'm just looking for something peppy and kinda quick. no 13second car here or anything. but again, info is welcome and encouraged. oh and celicaracer18, its the 3sgTe that puts out 220+ or w/e. b/c there is also a 3sge and a 3sge BEAMS <new NA 2L engine that produces something like 200hp? anywho, let me know ppl, let me know. oh, and for those who have done soemthin like a 4age/3sge/7afe swap.. wut did it cost you in the end..?? thank you.

And I might be outta line here but InfamousChappy, its cool that your joining the convo but please don't steal the topic i started. thanks.

[InfamousChappy]

I'm not trying to steal the topic..I just think we're both in the same boat and figured I'd join in. But hey it's cool whatever. Your car is just leaking a little oil, so you have time to debate what you are going to do.

My car is immobile and I'm getting pressure to act and make a decision therefore time has become a factor. I'm not encroaching man..Just looking for answers.

[cjh4l22]

I'm not trying to steal the topic..I just think we're both in the same boat and figured I'd join in. But hey it's cool whatever. Your car is just leaking a little oil, so you have time to debate what you are going to do.

My car is immobile and I'm getting pressure to act and make a decision therefore time has become a factor. I'm not encroaching man..Just looking for answers.

ok ok cool cool my bad, just didn't want someone taking this and running w/it, b/c thats happened before. but yea its not bad, but leaking oil is def. not a good thing so it needs action soon. i have about a month and a half to make the money for a swap, then make it happen over xmas break.

[netrata]

I would highly recommend not boosting a 20v 4age! I say this because the 20v uses high compression pistons in stock form, and is not suited for boost. You can, though, buy low compression pistons suited for the 20v(very costly) from such sites as toysport, toda-racing, and paradise racing. Also, the best engine to work with for boost is the 20v silvertop because the bottom end has the same components as the ae101 4agze. Don't get the blacktop for boost because the internals aren't as strong due to lighter internals. IMO, if your thinking about boost, then save up a 4agze engine. With displacement, yes the 20v has less torque than the 7afe engine, but it compensates with it's hp at higher rpms. With the 4agze, you get almost equivalent hp to any 20v 4age and you do have more torque due to the factory supercharger. And keep in mind, you can still boost the the 4agze! To answer your last question, I spent roughly $4000 to get the swap running the way I wanted it to. (expenses for fixing my a/c, making new p/s lines, and shipping for parts was a killer to my wallet)

This post has been edited by netrata: Oct 26, 2006 - 11:49 PM

[InfamousChappy]

i have about a month and a half to make the money for a swap, then make it happen over xmas break.


Damn I wanna work where you're at..4 grand in two months is some good money.

I've got about a grand right now..then all this crap started happening. I know a guy that lives on my road and works at a toyota dealership so I'm gonna go talk to him about this the mechanics of the whole thing. 3s sounds like the way to go..the 4a motors sound like less bang for about the same buck, considering you'd probably have to get a clip and all...plus both the 4a and 7a series motors sound like they hold up poorly under boost. The 3s was ENGINEERED by Toyota to take the pressure..and operate normally for thousands of miles, provided everything is installed right. With all this power though..you've got to keep it on the road...wheels and tires for a better stance..new shocks springs...strut bar and maybe sway bars. Just a thought.

[cjh4l22]

haha by no means will i make 4k by xmas. lol i have been planning on doing this for some time and i'm hoping to make the rest of the money over the next month and a half. and all things considered i've also wondered if it would be a smarter choice to simply rebuild??? i've heard good things about the turbo'd 7afe engines and i am starting to think it might be worth the rebuild and the turbo. hopefully someone out there has done this and will be able shed some light on this. thanks again for all the info.

[celica47]

hey bro, there is always another option. the V6 swap. 245 n/a HP. and can be done wayyy cheaper if you can do the work your self.

[InfamousChappy]

How are we talking? And how hard is the swapP Haven't heard anything about it.

[celica47]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=40694

Nick or (KESD) told me that it can be done for around 2k, which is very possible if you get lucky and if you can find some good prices. But with the v6 if you feel need for more speed you can always through a TRD super charger on there also