The long awaited transformation, 1 car 1 decade 1 dream Options

[milnersXcoupe]

"Sorry officer I must have left my Dilly Yo in my other pants at home."


-snip-



That's OK - I'll take cash,.... how much you got in that wallet ?




"But really though I do see your point on the 3u."


-snip -


It's the ONly way to go for a Lex V8 - the 1 UZ is a money pit with little to offer
other than cheap initial availability - after that ....... WoW is it Expensive to
get 'right' - and a major let down without.




Ok I did some more reading.


milnersXcoupe- I do see that the 1g is a nice motor.

The 3u does have some pros too, but it get its extra power from the VVTI.
It seems like I t would be easier to build up with out VVTI, or am I wrong?


-snip-


Well, yes. The VVTi changes the intake track runner lengths to optimize the air flow for a given RPM -
which helps HP / Torque as well as mileage and emissions.

MOST of the increase comes from the HUGELY upgraded Intake Plenum / Intake Runner / Intake Port / Larger Valve / Combustion Chamber reDesign / Piston Crown design / Piston Bore Increase > 85mm to 91.5mm !!


I can understand people building 1u's if they have 1 stock but there are lots of people dropping them in other cars too.


-snip -


Yes, agreed.

But why ? Cheap availability, WoW factor to look at initially - BUT - every single 1 UZ user complains bitterly about the Intake / Bore / lack of Torque unless the engine is Turbo'd - and then they hit the problem of the Entire Intake Tract being 'choked' - so they port the Plenum - swap it out for a later version - port the runners - port the heads - bigger valves - then after thousands of dollars and tons of time - realize they should have used a 2 UZ top end as it breathes much better in STOCK form than does any Hyper Ported 1 UZ top end ?

Ain't done yet! Then it's Cams - and the motor is STILL not as drivable as a 3 UZ would be just off boost -
you want an engine that is GREAT off boost - then a 'FREAK' ON boost........ THAT is where it's AT !


The GR engine is the Wave of Toyotas Racing future - as the cylinders are COMPLETELY surrounded by coolant - so Turbo and Supercharging will NOT bring on all the headaches of hot spots that the FORD Cobra camp are experiencing:



http://tinyurl.com/ythzdk



That engine weighs 384 lbs. - it LEAVES the line Flying!

The V8 guys are there waiting for the motor to make power and lifting
150 more pounds coming from nothing to RPM - Lite Weight = Torque !


Read those Racing Posts above - they went from a MAXIMUM EFFORT
Turbo 'Blown' 4.7 with GS400 heads etc. - set new Track Records -
then went to a TOYOTA V-6 adding Turbo - and went FASTER !!


Even the 5.7 - which is *Sweet* for a Normally Aspirated engine -
is NOT suited for Supercharging / Turbo , as it has Siamese'd cylinder
liners > Hot Spots <, and Alloy Melts around 1100 degrees > Turbo engine
combustion chambers see 1250 + ........ so tell me what comes next ?

Cylinder bore distortion and broken piston ring lands......... no thanks.

This post has been edited by milnersXcoupe: Jun 12, 2007 - 1:59 AM

[coldbluesteel]

Ok so this brings me back full circle!
At the 3u price point, I can get a ls1 with the six speed.
Talk about potential on that!

[milnersXcoupe]

I just read your take on that, def agree with you. I have my 5s opened up quite a bit and really can spin.

Yup !

Toyota's weak spot is that they designed the Intake Tract for mileage
and low end Torque using a short stroke small displacement.

Nice thing is their Oiling System has Zero Problems !

Engine will take 9 thousand RPM with the right springs / locks / keepers and
Valves.

You get there by having great Breathing - hence the 3 UZ FE redesign -
mirroring the Intake Tract of the 2 UZ Fe!

The gang at Lextreme JUST are getting this 'concept' of using the 2 uZ top end -
and there are plenty that SWEAR the 1 UZ top end is 'Golden' and the 2 UZ is junk !!

Even David has moved to the 2 UZ Fe > Bigger Bore / Longer Stroke / Better Breathing.


IF you do 'build' a 3 UZ Fe - since you'll be replacing the rods / pistons anyway - use a 2 UZ crank for the 3.33" stroke.

IF you have some extra cash - you can stroke out the crank to 3.5" in the 3 UZ block or 3.75 in the 2 UZ block - just use the 2 UZ stock crank for a 'Quick' stroke job.

[milnersXcoupe]

http://ls1howto.com/

http://www.installuniversity.com/ins...sity/index.htm

http://www.blackcamaro.com


I know........ I own a '66 GTO convertible too.


BUT... comparing Burger Meat to Shushi doesn't work !


EXOTIC is an ALL ALLOY DOHC engine - belt or chain driven - which SOUNDS and FEELS different than AMERICAN Iron......... THAT is .


Howling DOHC is what I want filling my Ears - and THAT is to be either 3 UZ FE for the V-8 flava' or the 1 GR for the extra handling feel a 384lbs engine will provide me ......... along with 500/ HP on Tap when I throw the Switches.......... yeah Baby ........ it's all in the Wrist !

[milnersXcoupe]

Where are you buying an LS1 and Six Speed for $3,000.00 ?

Have you SEEN the SIZE of that Six Speed std. Trans ?

I'm not stuffing that in my GTO because of the size - forget a 6G !

[coldbluesteel]

Where are you buying an LS1 and Six Speed for $3,000.00 ?

Have you SEEN the SIZE of that Six Speed std. Trans ?

I'm not stuffing that in my GTO because of the size - forget a 6G !

I have seen them from 4k to 6k


Oh the Goat would love six speed though!

I'm tall so I like to sit back far so If the shifter is where the arm rest use to be, fine by me

[coldbluesteel]

LS1 is alloy and the FE's aren't true duel cams ( not like the GE head at least)

What are these switches you speak of?

[milnersXcoupe]

Yeah - the GTO came originally with a 4 spd.

My 'Dream' for it is that Factory Supercharged Cadillac
and an 8 spd. Automatic!

I don't care for stick cars anymore - rather just
'pull the trigger' and be gone !

Turbo cars much prefer Automatics as you'll stay
on BOOST rather than lose boost between shifts -
AND - pushing the crankshaft forward every time
you shift isn't the greatest for the bearings regardless
of what anyone says.

Switches ?

Dial-a-Boost...... going from 4lbs boost around town
to 24lbs. boost to stuff those LS1 crates into Vanishing Points


One new Mazda cheapo car now features Magnesium or Titanium
Paddle Shifters - I'll take one of those columns for my project........ thank you very much

[coldbluesteel]

Yeah - the GTO came originally with a 4 spd.

My 'Dream' for it is that Factory Supercharged Cadillac
and an 8 spd. Automatic!

I don't care for stick cars anymore - rather just
'pull the trigger' and be gone !

Turbo cars much prefer Automatics as you'll stay
on BOOST rather than lose boost between shifts -
AND - pushing the crankshaft forward every time
you shift isn't the greatest for the bearings regardless
of what anyone says.

Switches ?

Dial-a-Boost...... going from 4lbs boost around town
to 24lbs. boost to stuff those LS1 crates into Vanishing Points




One new Mazda cheapo car now features Magnesium or Titanium
Paddle Shifters - I'll take one of those columns for my project........ thank you very much

I thought it was the new mits SUV

Ahhh those switches... nice.

Gotta be careful though some of those crates have switches too.

[GTS13]

Personally I'd rather see you keep it all Toyota. But I'm VERY glad you're planning on converting to RWD. I don't see how anyone would want more than 250 on their FWD car.

[DSRT-FX]

oh man all i can say is good luck!

here in aus we've got a fwd 6-7sec honda crx. but its really got triple rotor etc etc built into it and all they got left from the original crx is the chassis ... well a bit of it and the sticker at the front lol.

so i guess thats definately crossed the border and back again -R





This post has been edited by DSRT-FX: Jun 12, 2007 - 1:17 PM

[DSToyo]

that crx looks awfully similar to a del sol

[Kadett]

Its called a CRX Del Sol here

[Sinyk]

He's avoided the question about what he does for a living and where the money for this is coming from.

[DSToyo]

Its called a CRX Del Sol here

really, i didnt know that

This post has been edited by DSToyo: Jun 12, 2007 - 5:13 PM

[coldbluesteel]

He's avoided the question about what he does for a living and where the money for this is coming from.

Did I?

I work for the Government, and the money comes from the mint.

[milnersXcoupe]

Sounds to me as if this is an LS1 project - so let us proceed from that assumption :

If it is a 'crate' engine - I would, before install have the reciprocating parts -
include p plate / clutch / lightened flywheel / crank / rods / pistons complete with rings / harmonic balancer / crank pully sent out to be Lightened and Balanced .

I've read enough on these to know they are 'raw' when crated - and need some 'dialing in'.

Last thing you want is a mildly unbalanced / mildly heavy reciprocating arrangement - and engines sing
sweetly once gone thru.

The new 6 spd. automatic that GM is using is the same sourced by Maserati / Jag / Rolls / BMW etc. -
I realize you'll Opt for a 6 spd. stick - as I said, I'd rather an Automatic as it will shift way faster than you could ever hope to - that said, :

Check This Out:

GM has recently launched its new 6-speed automatics (6L45, 6L50, 6L80, 6L90)

ZF Presents the First 6-speed Automatic Transmission
Text and Photos by Neil McGarry

The Car Transmission Division of ZF has released information about the first 6-speed automatic transmission. The 6 HP 26 is rated for torque capacity up to 444 lb./ft. It is smaller and lighter than it's 5-speed automatic predecessor (the 5 HP 24) which is currently fitted to the S4 and A6 2.7T. This transmission is the cornerstone of a new range which will replace today's 5-speed generation and will be manufactured at ZF Getriebe GmbH, Saarbrücken. ZF has been producing 5-speed transmissions since 1990. Presently they make up 80 percent of ZF's automatic transmission production for passenger cars.

With its new and innovative automatic transmission generation, ZF has obtained the best ratings in all major evaluation criteria of transmissions:

# Higher Torque capacity
# Reduced length
# Reduced weight
# Less fuel consumption
# Better acceleration

The sixth gear

In the 90s a major design goal of vehicle and engine developers was to further reduce fuel consumption.

ZF is now counting on an extra sixth gear. Using the Lepelletier gear set concept, ZF has succeeded in making this 6th gear come true with less technical complexity than used in previous 5-speed automatic transmissions. The transmission has improved efficiency and ratio spread, along with an improved power/weight ratio.

Looking inside the new six-speed transmissions, you will find space-saving planet gear sets for combined action during shifts via a highly efficient control logic of the shift elements. The new concept allows a reduced weight of the transmission by about 13% and a substantial raise in torque capacity.

Torque converter with novel actuation

In automatic transmissions the torque converter is mainly used to move off the line. Part of the new electronic control system for the transmission is the Stand-by Control /SBC. Instead of having the converter running against the engine with the vehicle standing still (foot on the brake pedal), as was previously the case, the converter is now disconnected from the powertrain so that there is only minimal residual load. This further reduces fuel consumption.

Low fuel use and sporty acceleration

The ratio spread of the new six-speed has been designed in such a manner that in the "long" range, there is an extra gear which lowers internal speeds and simultaneously reduces noise and fuel consumption.

ZF has designed the smallest gear in such a way that it is even more powerful and permits better acceleration parameters than the previous five-speed transmissions.

The Mechatronic module

The transmission is controlled by a mechatronics module, a hydraulic shift unit combined with an integrated electronics module. Both electronic and hydraulic systems are found in the transmission housing and they are specifically geared to each other. In this way, signals and pressures can be realized with the lowest-possible tolerances and gearshifts can be performed even more precisely. This means optimized shift quality and better drive comfort. Use of the mechatronic module not only markedly simplifies logistics and assembly, it provides a number of other benefits. These include weight reductions, as well as raised reliability resulting from a reduction in the number of plugged contacts and fewer interfaces.

Transmission control

The electronic transmission control system is based on the newly developed Adaptive ShIft Strategy /ASIS.

The electronic system is constantly fed with data on the condition of the transmission, operating condition, operator behavior and operator requests. Comprehensive evaluation of these sensor signals permits complex functional structures of the control system. As a result it can react to spontaneous driver action or sudden topographical changes and immediately transmit the optimized shifting points to the attached hydraulic shift unit. In this process, the control system covers innumerable variations of driving style, from very sporty to very economical, derived from the incoming signals.

Practically unnoticed by the driver, the electronic system also adjusts its drive strategies to special conditions, such a city traffic and different load conditions.

Model range

ZF is planning to offer a 6-speed range for various drive solutions with torque ranges from 222 to 555 lb./ft.

Unlike the predecessor, the 6 HP 26 boasts an expanded ratio spread of 6.04. On top of that, the transmission is 50mm shorter and about 13% lighter than the 5 HP 24. Its acceleration values were increased by 1-5% and fuel consumption was lowered by 5-7%. The 6 HP 26 transmits a maximum input torque of 444 lb./ft.

6-speed Tiptronics

Although neither ZF or Audi would confirm the new 6-speed transmission in a specific model range, the new transmission will replace the current 5 HP 24 on the assembly line at ZF sometime in 2001.


2008 Cadillac CTS - CarSpace Automotive Forums

the GM sourced unit in the BMW 3The 335i now uses a ZF unit:ZF 6 HP 19 TU, 6-speed-

[Dragondog]

where did you guys go what the car at now?

[celicaGT96]

something seems fishy..

[coldbluesteel]

I just moved to Raleigh so the car is in storage at the moment while I contemplate the universe.
Well, really just until I decide what direction I want to go with this. The shop is in Charlotte and they just got an opening for my car so no time is really lost on my part. They are really eager to do the LS1 with a 6 speed and I just want to make sure that is the best option for overall performance.

something seems fishy..

Well you do live right on the gulf coast, maybe that is what you smell.