Replacement JDM Engine 4afe vs 5afe vs 7afe, Looking for the Pros/Cons of replacing engine with JDM 4afe vs 5afe vs Options

[mjzraz]

I am looking for the Pros/Cons of replacing engine with 4afe vs 5afe vs 7afe.

I have a 1994 Celica ST with the 1.8 7AFE Engine and auto trans. I am replacing the engine with a used engine due to Bearings, cracked Head, etc. Economy and reliability are the primary concerns. While more power is always fun, performance is secondary in this situation because we are already into the car with too much money and as it is, I need to perform all the labor myself.
From what I have researched any of the three long blocks can be swapped with each other. Here is a great post from last year about a 4AFE swap for a 7AFE

The specs that I have been able to look up are:
7AFE - 1.8 - HP:115@5600 - Torque:115@2800 Compression:9.5:1 (more torque and at a lower rpm)
4AFE - 1.6 - HP:115@6000 - Torque:109@4800 Compression:9.5:1 (early 4afe were 102HP)
5AFE - 1.5 - HP:100@5600 - Torque:102@4400 Compression:9.8:1

Cost:
7AFE - $650+$100 Shipping = $750
4AFE - $550+$145 Shipping = $695
5AFE - as low as $250+$180 shipping = $430 up to $500+$145 Shipping = $645

At the lowest cost, the 5AFE is $320 cheaper than the 7AFE. That's a huge difference. Considering that I still need a new water pump, timing belt, radiator and exhaust manifold, I can use the savings. I just don't want to be looking back 6 months from now and thinking why did I cheap out and not get the 7AFE. Some of the importers are pushing the 5AFE and certainly have cheap prices. The 7AFE engines are also not as readily available and thus another reason they are more expensive. Will the performance decrease be that bad? The car is an automatic. Any advise would be appreciated. I need to get moving to have this car ready when my daughter starts college in 4 Weeks.
Thanks, Mike

[Redline08]

well your the person first ive seen who actually can deal with no horsepower lol, but if i was you i would just replace the 7afe because I THINK if you try and put a 5afe or 4afe in its not going to be direct bolt on. Youll find yourself needing to spend more money on new parts that you wouldnt need with a 7afe swap. IMO drop in another 7afe, but thats just me...

[jason]

x2 for the 7a ... find someone with an st with low milage whos doin a swap and get their old engine from them, while its outta the car freshen it up some, spend the extra 2 days to give it several thousand more miles of wear. unfortunately my 7a has alot of miles on it so i cant be too much help =/

[purplegt4]

i'm near. I just swapped out my 7a with another 7a. I have one laying in my garage. Let me know if you need any arbitrary parts.

But it's beat.

[mjzraz]

Thanks for the input - is 15 less Horsepower that big a deal that it's worth spending the extra money? I guess that's what I am struggling with. The car is going to be a daily driver commute car where fuel economy is more important than performance. The bottom line is I am trying to save money, but want a drivable car. The 5AFE was in the Corolla - I wonder the weight difference between the Corolla and Celica? (Here we go - I researched the weights - Corolla 2315lbs, Celica 2400lbs) Since my daughter's old car is a diesel 85 Mercedes automatic, I think even 100 Horsepower in a much lighter car should be way faster in comparison.

Jason - I wish I could find someone upgrading or a wrecked car, but 7afe is just not readily available.

As far as doing the swap, based on the info from several importers and a 6G forum poster that has done the swap of a 4afe, there is really no difference in the long blocks. It should cost nothing to put either engine in place of the 7afe and no additional parts required. This is from the post I referenced:

If you are putting a 4AFE in you will need to modify two brackets - the power steering pump adjustment arm needs to have the top bolt hole (where it bolts to the head) hogged out a bit (lengthened or made into a slot in the UP direction); same for the intake manifold support bracket - we slotted the mounting hole on the bottom of the bracket where it bolts to the engine block.

Two guys I spoke with were surprised that even that was necessary.

The lousy thing is I bought the car at auction for $1500 as is - I was able to start and run the car, but it would start and run ok for 20 min before it overheated and started stalling out. I just never ran it that long until AFTER we bought it.

[mjzraz]

i'm near. I just swapped out my 7a with another 7a. I have one laying in my garage. Let me know if you need any arbitrary parts.

But it's beat.

Thanks, where did you get the replacement 7a? You bring up a good point - if I get another engine I am going to have the old one laying around - Wife won't be happy about that - where can you take a "bad" engine to get rid of?

[purplegt4]

LOL if i knew, it wouldn't be in my garage. hahaha

I got it in NJ. My dad lives up there and he drove one down. $600/hookup price. fresh motor from an auto celi. i'm satisfied. -> i got 100miles without the needle moving on a full tank of gas. mpg ftw.

[bindertch]

I would just stay with the 7A. Weights are different because of other things in your car and the best gas saver is your own foot. I went on a trip last summer and went an even 65mph for a full tank and got 38 MPG.

[Bitter]

you'll have a hard time getting the 5afe specific parts here in the US since toyota dealers dont carry parts for non US motors anymore and you wont just be able to grab them at any parts store.

[mjzraz]

Bitter - Point taken, I never even thought of that. I would hope that the valve cover gaskets and seals would be the same, but if not, that would be a hassle. D*mn! I would hope to never need major internals, but...

I have decided at least to pull apart the top end and see what I have with my own eyes instead of guessing what it looks like based on other people's opinions of what's wrong with my engine. I know it was overheated, I know I have low compression on 3 cyl, and I know I have exhaust gases and oil in the coolant. Not a great place to start from, but I want to see what I have and go from there.

This post has been edited by mjzraz: Aug 3, 2007 - 11:21 AM

[Bitter]

have the head machined flat and replace the head gasket. that should get it going again and you'll get a small bump in CR from the head being shaved a little.