Ethanol / E85, Dosen't seem to be a good thing, after all Options

[saleeka]

Our local news station did a 2 part report on E85 this week, and I was pretty supprised to find out some of the things that they informed us about. After seeing both segments, I certainly don't see ethanol as a solution for the time being whatsoever. It's less efficient, and because of that, it isn't any cleaner or cheaper, among other problems. For any of those interested, the below links are a good read


Part 1- Ethanol: fuel of the future?

Part 2- Our E85 road test

[Supersprynt]

From what I gather, it's a stepping stone. Like hybrid cars. They're not perfect, but it's heading in the right direction.

[Celiracer18]

i see nothing good in it.
I am a farmer though so my thoughts could be a little biased

This post has been edited by Celiracer18: Nov 9, 2007 - 7:04 PM

[Kwanza26]

But prairie grasses don't currently have the same political allies as corn.

That's the problem. Corn isn't the best crop in terms of yield to manufacture ethanol. Unless we as a nation worry about the PROBLEM instead of the politics... of course it isn't going to be a a huge leap in terms of renewable energy. And... the reason for poor efficiency, umm... let's first build a motor DESIGNED to run on ethanol before we compare a gasoline motor against it... k?

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Nov 9, 2007 - 8:00 PM

[Hanyo]

Our local news station did a 2 part report on E85 this week, and I was pretty supprised to find out some of the things that they informed us about. After seeing both segments, I certainly don't see ethanol as a solution for the time being whatsoever. It's less efficient, and because of that, it isn't any cleaner or cheaper, among other problems. For any of those interested, the below links are a good read


Part 1- Ethanol: fuel of the future?

Part 2- Our E85 road test

i'm too lazy to read it in dept.

From what i gathered from the article is that E85 gives worse MPG then gasoline.

Little facts about e85 is it has a higher octain rating then gasoline. That means if you want to fully take-advantage of the fuel you need a high compression engine. So this fuel will be perfect for turbo or all motor engine.

[Celiracer18]

What I don't like about it is that they are putting some of the plants in areas with a corn deficit and its also increasing the cost of corn which is putting many small-mid size farms out of business.

Another problem (to some) is that its increasing the cost of food and clothing. Corn products are going up in price because of the price of corn now. The price of cotton is going up a little because many cotton farmers are putting corn in instead of cotton so the supply of cotton has gone down a little.

This post has been edited by Celiracer18: Nov 10, 2007 - 11:59 PM

[presure2]

we should be making it out of sugar, like brazil has been doing for YEARS, as well as hawaii.

[GeEkBoY]

OK 3 things:

Corn is not a good source of ethanol. That is not to say ethanol is bad. In Canada, Iogen has been working on cellulose based ethanol for more than a decade, have had a pilot plant running for years and has been refining the technology for commercialization. Cellulose based ethanol uses biomass waste to produce fuel - hay, grass, corn cobs, oat husks among other things. It is a viable technology and can be used at existing corn-based production facilities with some upgrades and uses non-food sources to produce fuel.

http://www.iogen.ca/

2nd:

Anyone who does a 'one tank comparison' on fuel efficiency can not be trusted, I have been through government monitored fuel economy testing and this type of comparison is biased and useless.

The energy density of E85 on a volume basis is 71% of that of gasoline. While a 29% drop in fuel economy would be typical, ethanol burns more efficiently and has a much higher octane rating than gasoline. E85 has an octane rating of about 105 and when calculating the mileage penalty you need to factor this in. For people who drive high performance cars, the cost of more fuel is offset by the lower cost when compared to buying 94 octane fuel, and you can turn up the boost further if you are driving a turbo car that can handle the power. I was involved in an engineering competition in which we converted a 97 chev malibu to run on E85 and we saw less than a drop of 29% in fuel economy with an increase in power. On turbocharged cars, the penalty is even less.

3rd:

And most important. Cellulose ethanol has a much smaller carbon footprint than that of traditional gasoline and much less than that from fuel obtained the Oil sands in Alberta - where much of North America's fuel will be coming from in the next decades.

If you are interested in understanding how carbon emissions impact us, an excellent book is 'The Weather Makers' by Tim Fannery. I saw him speak at a luncheon and was very impresed.

[Shocker]

My buddy here in tennessee is running his supra on ethenol an from what ican gather from him its Treating him ok.

[jgreening]

From a global economic point of view, its a joke. I would vote to end all ethanol subsidies immediately. However, it is a a cheap alternative to race fuel for a properly modified car. As long as it is here, we might as well enjoy the benefits.

[Rayme]

I think its just wrong to grow food to make fuel out of it.

[Kwanza26]

I think its just wrong to grow food to make fuel out of it.

I remember reading somewhere that Corn is mostly used as livestock feed and for various other products... not necessarily just for human consumption (which is a fairly small percentage of the total use). I think it was in the cow fart = global warming article a while ago... but yeah. Something like that... =P