Supreme Court Finally Stands Up For Gun Owners Options

[alltracman78]

How many of those crimes are committed with illegal guns?
Got any statistics on that?

ok here you go... http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafet...ics.htm#america

So, most crimes are committed with illegal guns?
Not really a surprise, which makes me wonder why those of us that have LEGAL guns receive so much flak...
In addition to that, going by the statistics you provided the problem isn't the gun laws, it's lack of reinforcement.
Why then are you [collective] pushing for new laws and not pushing for enforcement of the current ones?

Here's some more statistics about kids and guns.
From http://www.keepandbeararms.com/Information...Item.asp?ID=563

"The study was conducted from 1993-1995 by the U.S. Department of Justice's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention. Child psychologists tracked 4,000 boys and girls aged 6 to 15 in Denver, Pittsburgh, and Rochester, N.Y. Their findings?

-- Children who get guns from their parents don't commit gun crimes (0 percent) while children who get guns illegally are quite likely to do so (21 percent).

-- Children who get guns from parents are less likely to commit any kind of street crime (14 percent) than children who have no gun in the house (24 percent) -- and are dramatically less likely to do so than children who acquire an illegal gun (74 percent.)

"Give that weak victim a gun AND THE TRAINING TO KNOWLEDGEABLY USE IT and it will even out the playing field. " or totally ban hand gun so nobody carries them even the thugs and burglars.

So, the fact that criminals prefer illegal guns means nothing.

"I do have a very big problem with other people telling me I can't own a gun because someone else is too dangerous to own one." Im not saying you can't own a gun just cause some are too irresponsible and don't know how, when and where to use it but it's like you're saying I do have a very big problem with other people telling me I can't drink and drive (though I'm so responsible and 100% guaranteed will not be involved in am accident) because someone else is too dangerous to drink and drive.

So by that logic, no one should own cars because some people are too dangerous to drive, no one can serve in the military or police because some aren't fit, no one can be a teacher because some aren't fit, etc, etc.

Alcohol impairs your control and judgment, period. Some more than others, but anyone that consumes alcohol is effected.
Anyone that owns a gun isn't guaranteed to attempt to use it in a crime. The majority of gun owners never will.

Violent crimes don't get solved or prevented using violent weapons. A wrong thing cannot be corrected by another wrong doing.

So, if I pull a .45 on a burglar breaking into my house [we don't know why, could be to steal my things, to rape my wife/daughter, to kill me, intentionally or not], that's not going to stop him?
And if he has a gun, what's to say he didn't intend to use it in the first place? If I get the drop on him, he doesn't have much chance to use it.
Sounds a lot like prevention to me.

And, since when is self defense "wrong doing"? In case you hadn't noticed, no one is advocating armed vigilante groups that hunt down "bad guys". No one is advocating we hunt down someone that committed a crime against us and shoot them. We are SPECIFICALLY talking about preventing harm to us and our families. How exactly is that "wrong doing"?

hand guns are not solutions for accidents or crime. Got it? again, 2 wrongs don't make it right.

Again, see my last reply.

[alltracman78]

Do you feel that unsafe that you need to be carrying a gun around?.... Try living in Camden, near Newark, going to college near Hartford, then transferring to college near Trenton, NJ and then we'll talk. Camden, Newark, Trenton and Hartford are all listed ahead of Houston as more dangerous cities to live in. Never once have i even thought about getting a gun. I dont live in Houston and i probably would have no problem living in Houston....Houston doesnt even break the top 25 most dangerous cities to live in (i'd actually feel more safe living in Houston in comparison to where ive been). Give me a break...ive lived near and in more dangerous cities than that. So you kill somebody thats trying to break into your house...you get life in prison...good job...but hey. At least you'll be safe in prison right?

So you have to live in a particularly dangerous area to be the victim of a violent crime? I'll keep that in mind next time one iis committed in a "safe" area.
Aside from the fact that it's legal to defend yourself [pretty much anywhere; even in Ma you can shoot someone if they pull a gun on you], have you ever heard the expression "it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"?

Now, this is very simple. Guns do not kill people, bullets when shot out of that gun kill people, and bullets (normally) dont go off until the trigger is pulled, by (again, normally) a finger that is attached to a human hand. Thus, People kill people. IF not with a gun, then with a knife,bat,hammer,poison,rope,broken bottle,chainsaw, screw driver, bricks.......do i need to go on? It doesnt matter what you do with guns, people will kill people other ways. Atleast with guns the battle is even. and even if there are laws banning guns or making it harder to get them, well drugs are illegal arent they?

There is no solution, but being a good judge of what needs to be done. If i caught a person taking my car, i would not shot him, its a car, i love it, but its not worth a persons life. Now if you in my house, then your to close for comfort and your dead when you turn around. because im not going to give you the chance to think about hurting someone in that house. If you pull a knife on me, you intend to hurt me in a very bad way and maybe kill me, your dead. you want to get into a fist fight with me. we throw down, if i lose, i lose. i dont kill for out of pride. And with that is your solution.

People Have To Think.

I agree with most of what you said...but i gotta ask you. If you can use all those things as weapons, why do you need to have full possession of a gun? People kill people like you said so whats the purpose of having a gun when in fact people are the only lethal weapons walking the streets. This is according to you.

Its amazing to see so many internet toughies in one place. But you actually were reasonable and rational unlike "death."

And you must be the toughest of them all.....
We don't care that you don't want to own a gun, no one is trying to force anyone to one one, we just want to keep our RIGHT to own one if we wish, whether for self defense or just because we like guns.

Oh, I'm more than willing to see who will win if you have as many "knife,bat,hammer,poison,rope,broken bottle,chainsaw, screw driver, bricks" as you want, and all I have is loaded .45. Sounds like a fair fight, at least according to you.

[supershannon77]

again Jeremy it scares me that you own a gun...nah Im just joking... I think this is a good thing..Im dont plan on owning a gun bc In any situation i would need one i wouldn't no how to use it..and im sure my bf will be there so can go buy the gun that way he can protect me. It just gives you that extra comfort of knowing its there if god forbid you ever needed it.

[Legit94GT]

again Jeremy it scares me that you own a gun...nah Im just joking... I think this is a good thing..Im dont plan on owning a gun bc In any situation i would need one i wouldn't no how to use it..and im sure my bf will be there so can go buy the gun that way he can protect me. It just gives you that extra comfort of knowing its there if god forbid you ever needed it.

ITs refreshing to hear that, really it is When i was buying my shotgun and waiting for everything to go through, in those 15-20 minutes i was standing there, TWO people came up to buy hand guns, having never shot a gun. Now that is ridiculous, and this is were we wcould use better guns, like you have to take a 4 day class on how to shoot before you can get your gun, stuff like that. So it is good to hear that you understand that you dont know how to use a gun, therefore you dont buy one, to many just think, "oh its point shoot, i got it" and that isnt the case at all.

Good stats ALLTRACMAN78, i did a report in college about all this, with alot more stats, among other things, but i couldnt find it on this computer, so i dont know where they went:(

Basically alltracman78 said it all... you are my new hero lol, but seriously

[Celiracer18]

honestly i think one of the greatest ways to help improve the gun control for the US would be to have a stolen gun serial database. granted the serial numbers can be changed a bit and they can be removed completely, it would GREATLY increase the number of stolen guns sold at gunshows all around the states.

[manphibian]

Coming from a country where virtually nobody has a gun, i think you should keep the right.

Gun crime is on the increase in the UK, I don't think it's any more difficult for a criminal to get hold of a gun illegally here, than it is in the US.

It's the illegal owning of guns that needs to be stopped!

There was a high profile case here a while ago where a guy shot a burglar robbing his house (not lethally) and got sent down for it. Crazy!


The only thing i hate is the increase in 'gangs' which is increasing here and is in no doubt because of influence from the US, where gun carrying gangs are 'cool'

I'm so glad that it's very unlikely that i will ever see anyone pull a gun on me, but if things do go similar to the US then i'd like the option to be able to have one too.

[supershannon77]

again Jeremy it scares me that you own a gun...nah Im just joking... I think this is a good thing..Im dont plan on owning a gun bc In any situation i would need one i wouldn't no how to use it..and im sure my bf will be there so can go buy the gun that way he can protect me. It just gives you that extra comfort of knowing its there if god forbid you ever needed it.

ITs refreshing to hear that, really it is When i was buying my shotgun and waiting for everything to go through, in those 15-20 minutes i was standing there, TWO people came up to buy hand guns, having never shot a gun. Now that is ridiculous, and this is were we wcould use better guns, like you have to take a 4 day class on how to shoot before you can get your gun, stuff like that. So it is good to hear that you understand that you dont know how to use a gun, therefore you dont buy one, to many just think, "oh its point shoot, i got it" and that isnt the case at all.

Good stats ALLTRACMAN78, i did a report in college about all this, with alot more stats, among other things, but i couldnt find it on this computer, so i dont know where they went:(

Basically alltracman78 said it all... you are my new hero lol, but seriously

Yes Alltracman78 is my hero 2..you should talk to him person or on the phone just once the amount of knowledge he has is just amazing..he just doesn't shut up hahaha...Any way yea I do no how to use a gun I was taught since i was little by my dad...no classes tho...Its one thing to be using the gun at a range or where ever but once you add in someone is breaking in or attacking you its completly different and I think many people me being one would panic and just freeze and cry and not no what to do....yes since I was little my dad always had me go places to do shot different guns and stuff but half of it I dont remember and even if I did it def is not enough for me to feel comfy protecting myself I def would make it worse....My bf has done all those classes and he hunts and all that fancy stuff...not as much as you tho Sgt Jeremy so yes thank you for compliment bc in most cases I try to be pretty logic and be like Shannon really what would you do with a gun...clean it stare at it idk brag about it..so in conclusion unless I become Lora Croft im not gonna own a gun. All you men enjoy your toys...and dont hot your eye out

[DEATH]

So you own a gun...ur going to kill somebody who's trying to steal ur car or break into a home??

Yes

Do you feel that unsafe that you need to be carrying a gun around?

You obviously don't live in Houston Texas. And yes I value human life less than I do my car as well.

Yea cuz that's real rational. LOL.

Houston Texas? Try living in Camden, near Newark, going to college near Hartford, then transferring to college near Trenton, NJ and then we'll talk. Camden, Newark, Trenton and Hartford are all listed ahead of Houston as more dangerous cities to live in. Never once have i even thought about getting a gun. I dont live in Houston and i probably would have no problem living in Houston....Houston doesnt even break the top 25 most dangerous cities to live in (i'd actually feel more safe living in Houston in comparison to where ive been). Give me a break...ive lived near and in more dangerous cities than that. So you kill somebody thats trying to break into your house...you get life in prison...good job...but hey. At least you'll be safe in prison right?

Again - you don't live in Houston. I had an HPD officer give me the instructions and advice on how to properly shoot someone who was breaking into my car. It's perfectly legal in Tx to protect your property [including car, home, children, wife, yourself etc.] with killing force. In TX if someone is in the act of breaking into your car you are well within your rights to shoot him. The officer said it would be best to put the bullet through a window and into the thief - that way the evidence is obvious and you go back home that night.
BTW - I've lived a significant portion of my life in the NY/NJ/NYC area - you're not telling me anything I didn't already know.

Its amazing to see so many internet toughies in one place. But you actually were reasonable and rational unlike "death."

Funny that you speak of internet toughies when you're the biggest blow hard on this site. You talk a big game anywhere and anytime you think someone will listen. Problem is - noone cares.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Jun 30, 2008 - 5:11 PM

[manphibian]

^^^ That however is just ludicrous!

How can a car ever be placed higher than anyone's life.

Gimme a break! You can't think that's ok?!?

[DEATH]

Sorry - but I agree with it. If you're a big enough POS to break into someone's property then the world is better off without you. Forgiveness is for your god and the courts to decide on. And what is this automatic value on human life? The value of a human life is much like respect - it has to be proven to be worth something. By itself it means very little.
Doesn't mean I'd not have a hard time coping with having killed someone afterwards.

[purplegt4]

polite? that's a polite way of saying it, isn't it? you're right though... not my business and I should not be getting involved. All I'm asking is for you guys to prove to me that what you're saying is right. We are entitled to question one's views and opinions in this forum, aren't we?

the problem is defining what is right.

[97Celica]

Guns were originally created to hunt for basic survival...now America thinks they're okay to stop crime. The same America thinks sex is okay at the age of 14...Horray America. :-(

[Havok1997GT]

Sorry - but I agree with it. If you're a big enough POS to break into someone's property then the world is better off without you. Forgiveness is for your god and the courts to decide on. And what is this automatic value on human life? The value of a human life is much like respect - it has to be proven to be worth something. By itself it means very little.
Doesn't mean I'd not have a hard time coping with having killed someone afterwards.

I agree with your statement, but i dont think i could go through with it for a car. But thats a personal thing not because i dont think your right. I agree with you about human life and whether it has value should be proven worth. But its hard to make yourself that judge, yah know? I mean that person might be a car guy who never stole anything in his life, have children who have no one to turn to if hes gone. Maybe thats why he steals your car. because hes all alone in the world with these kids and they have to eat. You can say he could just get a real job, but maybe he cant work. what if he has some kinda injury that wont allow him to work, maybe he spent his life working for something and it all feel apart, then what? you have to make a living for him and these kids so stealing cars makes a crap tone of money. so he does that.

My point is when is desperate times, people dont always think, and just act. And its not always the best thing to do, but it seems the only thing they can do. The Law may say that you can shoot someone for stealing your car, but what happens if you shoot someone who made a bad choice thinking it was his and his families only choice?

I agree this may never be the case, but what if? I dont know like i said, if you in my house your dead. But i just dont know how good my aim would be if your stealing my car.