Im ready for ROUND 2..., Ninja turtle 2 progress springs/tires Options

[playr158]

Hey guys,

As most of you know I do almost only wiring now, I oversee swaps at SCC that are being done on my customer's cars when they need help. My comments on the build:

1. The over-axle was my choice and is by far the best way to do it. It's the way it's ran factory, with mandrel-bent piping the extra couple bends aren't going to hurt the flow and it comes out very clean. The whole "under axle is better" notion comes from lazy/unskilled fabricators who have told their customers that going under the axle is "better", simply because they were either unable or unwilling to do it the right way.

2. Having the wastegate going into one runner was a solution to a logistical problem faced by the guys at SCC who did the build. It wouldn't have been my first choice but seeing the small amount of space they had to work with I can see why they did it that way. The manifold is a SINGLE-entry going to a single-entry turbo, so technically all four runners are in the same chamber, and the pressure in that chamber should be able to vent through the wastegate without causing boost creep. I guess we'll know for sure once it's on the road

3. The intercooler piping easily clears the hood, it's taking the same route that it did when I personally did the swap the first time last year, except that now it's welded

-Doc

Sorry but your #1 explanation is purely BS. The best way to run an exhaust is the straightest line possible with the least amount of bends. Bends increase back pressure, turbulence and slow the exhaust gases. It doesn't come from unskilled or lazy it comes from practical knowledge of physics. While its not a back breaking issue in this car, still no reason for junk explanations.

did they consider an adapter piece for the manifold to turbo such as see in some kits:


i know there were space limitations so just curious

This post has been edited by playr158: Sep 26, 2008 - 1:02 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

Hey guys,

As most of you know I do almost only wiring now, I oversee swaps at SCC that are being done on my customer's cars when they need help. My comments on the build:

1. The over-axle was my choice and is by far the best way to do it. It's the way it's ran factory, with mandrel-bent piping the extra couple bends aren't going to hurt the flow and it comes out very clean. The whole "under axle is better" notion comes from lazy/unskilled fabricators who have told their customers that going under the axle is "better", simply because they were either unable or unwilling to do it the right way.

2. Having the wastegate going into one runner was a solution to a logistical problem faced by the guys at SCC who did the build. It wouldn't have been my first choice but seeing the small amount of space they had to work with I can see why they did it that way. The manifold is a SINGLE-entry going to a single-entry turbo, so technically all four runners are in the same chamber, and the pressure in that chamber should be able to vent through the wastegate without causing boost creep. I guess we'll know for sure once it's on the road

3. The intercooler piping easily clears the hood, it's taking the same route that it did when I personally did the swap the first time last year, except that now it's welded

-Doc

Sorry but your #1 explanation is purely BS. The best way to run an exhaust is the straightest line possible with the least amount of bends. Bends increase back pressure, turbulence and slow the exhaust gases. It doesn't come from unskilled or lazy it comes from practical knowledge of physics. While its not a back breaking issue in this car, still no reason for junk explanations.

Well playr, you ARE the expert.

did they consider an adapter piece for the manifold to turbo such as see in some kits:


i know there were space limitations so just curious

I believe the problem was that they couldn't move the turbo any lower than it was, so that adapter wouldn't have worked. Like I said though, I didn't fabricate the manifold so I'm not 100% sure.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Sep 26, 2008 - 2:20 PM

[presure2]

from what ive read, every 90* bend is the equivlent of 3' of straight pipe.
when that kinda info comes from guys like rickyb and the like, i would trust them.


i havent built a full exhaust yet, and i havent dynoed the celica with 3" over, then under to see the diffrence, so i cant really say for sure, but to me it seems the whole point is to get the exahaust out in as straight and short a path as possible for best results with a performance exhaust.
not that i dont "like" the idea of going over the axle, i think it looks pretty cool actually, just dont see the point when your building this kind of car.

as for the wastegate placement, i really dont get what you mean by "technically all four runners are in the same chamber".

the wastegate is placed directly off of runner #3, before the 4 runners converge, as shown in this pic:



and this one:



its VERY much like this cast manifold that turbonetics made back in the day, in that the wastegate comes off of a single runner:

[attachment=1089:turbonet...manifold.jpg]

the results of using it like that ends up like this post on mr2oc from a guy who used one:
http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=3077...netics+manifold

in a nutshell he would make 26psi...with a 7, then a 15psi spring.
in an effort to see if he could get ANY boost control with that manifold at all, ran it open, with no wastegate at all, basicly creating a big leak, before the turbine, and still had terrible creep issues.

not trying to bust on ya tweek, just pointing somthing out that i noticed, and i figured the OP might have overlooked, before he gets the car and wonders why he cant control boost at all.

[x_itchy_b_x]

poor manifold design, sorry thats all there is to it. tell that guy to do it over.

[lagos]

I will side with tweek on the exhaust issue. Its 3in mandrel bend pipe on a car that will hit around 300hp. I don't think that one bend is going to hurt performance at all. Now, it it was done with compression bends, it would be a different story.

As for the manifold... yeah, I'm not a fan either. Not only the wg placement but also the fact that is a cut up ebay manifold. I would have personally tracked down a 3rd gen cast manifold (i think they fit the 4th gens) and used an adapter... but who cares really. The work is done. Take the car out and see how it does. If it creeps, you'll know why.

This post has been edited by lagos: Sep 26, 2008 - 4:04 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

as for the wastegate placement, i really dont get what you mean by "technically all four runners are in the same chamber".

The manifold that you gave a link to is a twin entry. Two of the runners converge and then go to the turbine, and the other two runners converge and go to the turbine. That means that there's absolutely no chance that any exhaust gas from two full runners can escape.

The manifold that SCC built is a single-entry, so all four runners converge before the turbo. This means that technically all four runners could vent gas through the wastegate. Though the wastegate is higher up on runner #3, all of the runners still have access to it through the third runner. Remember pressure is what turns the turbine, and that pressure, which builds up in the manifold, is released by the wastegate. Not defending the design, I would personally have built a whole new manifold from scratch, I'm just explaining what I meant by the exhaust gas in the four runners all being in the same physical cavity.

But, I have a feeling it will be fine. Like Lagos said, take it out, and if it creeps, you'll know why

-Doc

[RUNNIN-LOW]

yeah i would agree with tweak and pressure that yeah one bend wont hurt much on the exhaust...i have a freak full straight pipe, if i could do it all over again i would have wanted the bend. it makes the car looks so much better...and yeah the dude that did my exhaust even told me he was too lazy and it took to much time to make the bend....so i was like yeah whatever you suck..and paid him 120...

ooh yeah piro!!!! im right behind you man..what kind of turbo is that again i think i might have the same one...but im using the adapter plate..the cast manifold make me feel much safer....same wastegate but mines is blue....but right now im worry about my ic piping it seems so close and i dont want it to rattle up against the fans.. all in all your car is going to be SICCK AS HELL!!!!! .....ill hurry up and finish and drive down to greensbaro or morganton to vs family and we can hook up and talk cars hahaha...

[easternpiro1]

thanks guys for clearing some of that stuff up, manny i did indeed overlook the w/g placement. I was under the impression that the manifold was from scratch and would have placement for the w/g, but george (the pres) told me they needed to make a bung for the manifold, so i didnt see it as much of a problem at the time.

HOWEVER IF there is a boost creep issue, i will talk to the guys, and ask for another one. i dont want to drive around having to worry about if the boost is going to spike when i get on it, but like lagos said, we'll see after its on the road

as far as the exhaust, i totally agree with the fact of least restrictive route, but i scrape as it is, and will be lowering the car. when i had the other 3" set up, it was pretty close to the ground. running under axle puts me at ease a bit.

[Agent21]

All these lovely pictures and I only live a stones throw away. Maybe when I get my GT all back in one piece I'll venture over. Should be by the end of the week.

[easternpiro1]

quick update...not a good one though... the car was being run @ idle and everything seemed fine...UNTIL smoke started forming and them it was noticed that the turbo was leaking some oil. upon further inspection bits of metal were found in the oil, so the good guys at SCC are sending the turbo out to be remanufactured. there was no metal shavings found in the manifold or the oil return line, BUT the oil was pitch black. It was brand new synthetic mobil 1 oil. also there was no shavings found in the turbo, and there did not seem to be any evidence of damage to the innards of the turbo.

could it have been cleaning out the motor because of how long it was sitting?
the pan will be pulled soon to see if there were any shavings in it.
it may be a thrust ring, but idk...

[easternpiro1]

jeez.... lol. another update, it will be another week due to my shift linkage breaking, car was running fine, purring like a kitten BUT there was some strange whistling noise which seemed to be coming from the air intake mainfold, this manifold was pinned against the firewall during the oringinal accident, but dosent appear to be damaged.


oh mylanta.... i miss my car! i want to get it back so i can get to working on the visual aspect! im fiberglassing my cracked lip and got a nice pair of sideskirts waiting for it! just dont know what to do about the rear bumper (and lack of crash bar)

probably will be posting a poll about paint options (will be painting at my house with a friend)

cheers!

btw...lots of stuff for sale in my fs thread! buy! buy! dammit! lol

[nats_celica]

hey dude i just gta say the person tht takes those pics on the first post has got gd timing (not to be rude but i have to point out u scratchn ur n*ts wen the pic was taken) sorry. anyway car is lookn gd so far. keep it up

[easternpiro1]

hey dude i just gta say the person tht takes those pics on the first post has got gd timing (not to be rude but i have to point out u scratchn ur n*ts wen the pic was taken) sorry. anyway car is lookn gd so far. keep it up

oh snap!! LMAO! im going to point that out to edgar when i see him! thanks for pointing that out!

[playr158]

jeez.... lol. another update, it will be another week due to my shift linkage breaking, car was running fine, purring like a kitten BUT there was some strange whistling noise which seemed to be coming from the air intake mainfold, this manifold was pinned against the firewall during the oringinal accident, but dosent appear to be damaged.


oh mylanta.... i miss my car! i want to get it back so i can get to working on the visual aspect! im fiberglassing my cracked lip and got a nice pair of sideskirts waiting for it! just dont know what to do about the rear bumper (and lack of crash bar)

probably will be posting a poll about paint options (will be painting at my house with a friend)

cheers!

btw...lots of stuff for sale in my fs thread! buy! buy! dammit! lol

pressure test for boost/vacuum leaks

[easternpiro1]

jeez.... lol. another update, it will be another week due to my shift linkage breaking, car was running fine, purring like a kitten BUT there was some strange whistling noise which seemed to be coming from the air intake mainfold, this manifold was pinned against the firewall during the oringinal accident, but dosent appear to be damaged.


oh mylanta.... i miss my car! i want to get it back so i can get to working on the visual aspect! im fiberglassing my cracked lip and got a nice pair of sideskirts waiting for it! just dont know what to do about the rear bumper (and lack of crash bar)

probably will be posting a poll about paint options (will be painting at my house with a friend)

cheers!

btw...lots of stuff for sale in my fs thread! buy! buy! dammit! lol

pressure test for boost/vacuum leaks

pressure test came back inconclusive, will try to get video up of the sound.

[playr158]

inconclusive?

it should either hold pressure or it loses pressure?
after that its spray water/soap solution and find the bubbles, or smoke it. and watch for smoke to come out

[easternpiro1]

inconclusive?

it should either hold pressure or it loses pressure?
after that its spray water/soap solution and find the bubbles, or smoke it. and watch for smoke to come out

yeah, it didnt show any leaks, but there are a few lines that werent checked. will suggest smoking it

[easternpiro1]

IT IS ALIIIIIIIIIIIVEEEEEEEEE!!!!! MUHAHAHA!!!



$#!T. Can anyone tell what that loud whining noise is (sort of like a jet before take off)? we thought it was some sort of boost leak, but no pressure drop. george listened with a stethoscope, but cant pin ponit where its coming from.

and yes, i know, the other sound is compressor surge, on my previous turbo setup, the BOV was adjusted (stiffened) to prevent a leak i had. now the spring is too stiff, easy fix

what do ya think?

[enderswift]

saw this 10 min ago.... still crapping my pants.

everytime i see a setup like this come to life get more and more jealous. have fun

[zero07]

Who cares about the noise, your car sounds bad ass! I want it.