The automotive bailout Options

[playr158]

they call it a bailout but its not. thats my problem with it.

they will just fail later on....call it the BIG 3 Band-aid....

call a spade a spade

[Taskbot]

The bailout was approved - Sweden did the same with Saab & Volvo.

Hahahahaha you mean they did the same with GM and Ford.
That's rich.

[Supersprynt]

Well - I'm not sure if they mean Saab & Volvo as a whole, or their car manufacturing. Yes Ford owns Volvo car division, but doesn't own the Volvo company. Same with GM. GM owns Saab car division, but Saab is an aerospace provider, which GM doesn't own.

[stephen_lee]

i just don't understand how such large companies with so many sales are failing...
i want to look at their bank accts haha

[playr158]

i just don't understand how such large companies with so many sales are failing...
i want to look at their bank accts haha

their balance sheet and other financial statements are available to the public

[Taskbot]

Well - I'm not sure if they mean Saab & Volvo as a whole, or their car manufacturing. Yes Ford owns Volvo car division, but doesn't own the Volvo company. Same with GM. GM owns Saab car division, but Saab is an aerospace provider, which GM doesn't own.

We're talking about the car firms though. I also found an article that verifies its the car firms.
"Volvo and Saab had been asking for Swedish state support because of the financial woes of their US owners."

But yeah... Saab aerospace.... Do they even make money?
Volvo Trucks probably is still profitable.

[Supersprynt]

Makes sense - those companies will be sold off anyways. I think both are already on the market.

[D-Man]

We'll be seeing Saab and Volvo on the "FEATURED" section of E-Bay in the coming weeks

[97celiman]

[/quote]
whatsoever so no i dont like him at all but like i said lets keep the thread on topic
o look a self made smilie :-) hahahaha
[/quote]

o i know im just giving you a hard time...trying to keep it light, we could pull the first ammendment crap but i dont think either of care enough...
i dont like the part about blaming the little guy i think just the big man- if i were the little guy i would be much happier just taking the paycut than losing my job- or maybe hed rather push a broom for toyota
i dunno man i think healthy debate is good but as we learn- trying to change an attitude or behavior is one of the hardest things to change especially over this type of ideal as long as you go away mad at the big guy and not mad at the little guy who is a union member im happy : )
yay for homemade smileys

[CAMAricer]

Need...more...capitalization...and better punctuations...too hard...to read...eyes are cringing....AHHHH!!! No offense, but it looks like incoherent, ramblings of a madman.

and if you read all of it-props to you

I disagree about not placing blame on the Janitor who makes 52K. It's like not placing blame on a spoiled bratty child. Sure, the parents are at fault...but does that let the kid off the hook too?

And don't even get me started about "unions". Has anyone stopped to think how much communism and unions have in common?

[tonytutino]

oh well.
the bill died tonight.

[stephen_lee]

so... no bail out?

[creis]

yup the bail-out appears to be officualy dead due to a "procedural vote" by the senate (my understanding of it being a senete pre-vote or something) (with exception to weither the W.H. will pull from the TARP's 700b bailout to give em.) I personly think that the govermant should not be responsable for saving failing companies regardless of how large, the people in charge of thies compaines have clearly failed at there jobs dispite there massive paychecks, thus should be fired as anyone else would be. So my opinion is let the companies go under or file ch11 and re-org if posible. That said I do think the govermant has the responsobility to help out the people losing there jobs.

I think what I would do is let the companies die and take the 14b from the TARP and use it to support thoes workers via paying bills and healthcare (figure 14b devided around to about 1m laid off workers is 14k each for 1 year. not the best but IMO much better then giving it to the companies so they can follow in AIG's footsteps and give out huge bonuses to the top exec's so they wont leave. what I dont get is this, thies companies have been dumping massive loads of money to there leaders, why not settle and give them the choice, the top execs/CEO's etc personaly fund the companys bailout and the gov. match what they come up with via paying partial wages/healthcare etc.

my .02 for what its worth.

[GriffGirl]

Need...more...capitalization...and better punctuations...too hard...to read...eyes are cringing....AHHHH!!! No offense, but it looks like incoherent, ramblings of a madman.

and if you read all of it-props to you

I disagree about not placing blame on the Janitor who makes 52K. It's like not placing blame on a spoiled bratty child. Sure, the parents are at fault...but does that let the kid off the hook too?

And don't even get me started about "unions". Has anyone stopped to think how much communism and unions have in common?

I think that's very well put, but the reality is is that if I were making 52k a year, I wouldn't complain about it, whether I deserved that 52k a year or not. There's the flip side of your statement, which is that the janitor should be supported in the lifestyle to which he's become accustomed. The bailout is his alimony (Of course I say that totally facetiously)

I totally understand the importance and value of unions... especially in the context of the turn of the LAST century when they genuinely represented people who were basically being taken for granted and whose labor was being abused. I can support a union that's sole purpose is to preserve safe and fair working conditions. But this has gotten out of hand. Many people who are union members aren't even doing it by choice. It's institutionalized extortion. Unwilling members are extorted into paying their monthly and annual dues, and corporations are extorted into paying ridiculous wages that are disproportionately higher than the market value of their positions is. And don't go off with that "you're not being forced to, you could just quit your job" crap. That may be true, but it's not realistic for a lot of people, and either way, it's still institutionalized extortion.

[97celiman]

yes i know i do this........ alot i really...hate....that...i...do...and...am....working....on..
.it... and im not a madman but i do tend to ramble-my bad

griff- i understand and no i wont go off on the "your not forced to" b/c i do realize that some are forced, and of course its not realistic for people b/c everyone needs a job or at least a source of income; however as you said, they are there to preserve safe FAIR working conditions for workers, which i think is important. That and negotiating health care and what-not, o and equal raises for time spent and worked etc...

o and....



...

[NgoFcukinWay]

So a buddy of mine was telling me today that since Ford didn't get any government money that they're filing lawsuits against any and all websites (and I think companies) that has anything Ford vehicle-related words in their names, ie model names. They're suing for up to $10K for misc sh!t and $5K for copy-right infringement. A forum he frequents (TheRangerStation.com), the admin received a personal letter from Ford saying that he was being sued if he didn't remove all mentions of Ford related items within 10 days. The members in West Virginia or somewhere on the East coast made a stink about it and ended up on the news, so Ford lifted the lawsuit, but there's still a pending lawsuit: the selling of stickers/window decals that says TheRangerStation.com on them which could cost TRS up to $10K. So far Ford has won quite a handful of these lawsuits and are still going. My buddy said the last thing he heard was that the people/company that started the whole "Calvin pissing on the Ford emblem" got attacked and ended up forking over $9.5K to Ford. $5K for copy-right and $4.5K for misc junk.

[TheMadScientist]

we need to break the Unions, just my stance.

I'm in a electrical union IBEW= International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. All I have to say about that is There suposed to be one of the best unions. But I've paid them $60 a week plus $40 a month for union dues and I'm still laid off . All I got from them is a lousy christmas card and they still expect me to pay my union dues. So F*** the union, they were good back in the day when labor laws and pay were unfair.

[Cutrara]

Oh God... Where is Lee Iacocca when you need him?

[Akirad1]

well if ford styled the USDM cars like they do the European versions they prolly sell a lot more cars. for example
http://crazy-cars.net/yonetim/upload/DSCF1206_BUYUK.jpg. this is one bad a$$ focus

This post has been edited by Akirad1: Dec 31, 2008 - 8:01 PM

[stephen_lee]

well if ford styled the USDM cars like they do the European versions they prolly sell a lot more cars. for example
http://crazy-cars.net/yonetim/upload/DSCF1206_BUYUK.jpg. this is one bad a$$ focus

Its honestly NOT about sales.. they SALE vehicles. its the careless spending of thte executives and the low quality/high repair under warranty thats killing them.

Hell, my fiancee's dad has a 2008 F250 that was in the shop for repairs THREE times already. and he just got it in November! total work done was upwards of $18,000. thats honestly pathetic.