FWD to RWD, could this be done? Options

[monkeywrench]

I have been wanting to convert my celica to RWD, and i've been thinking of how I could do it. One way I thought of is (someone correct me if im wrong) taking the transmission out of the front end of the car and sticking it on the rear axle, like the corvette design is. I was thinking it might be easier because the front of the car would have to have body work to hold the transmission (wouldn't it? I'm just guessing), and theres more empty room -the trunk- at the back.

Would this be possible, with little or no bodywork (cutting any part of the frame)? If it can be done, how would you do it? My dad and I would be doing the work and we talked about it and he had a rough idea, but neither of us are sure of how to do it. Any help would be appreciated. I do know this would be very expensive, but its a thought for now.

[playr158]

sorry that wouldn't work, wrong type of transmission. best is to use the Rear of an ST205 or tub it out like Hardtarget.

ie this is not a practical idea, and you should just start with a supra.

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 10, 2009 - 12:02 PM

[Culpable04]

if AWD convertion is practical why wouldn't a RWD be it also ?

ST205 rear, custom driveshaft, for the front there are options, the one I've research the most is the a series engine / tranny combo.

4agze ( turbo the thing or it'll be slow )
RWD AE86 tranny

custom mounts

yes the engine / tranny fits with no modifications to the frame ( except for mounts ), the engine bay of our 6th gens is slightly bigger than the one of a AE86.

the other option is the 3sge / 3sgte engine with IS200 tranny, but I haven't found any dimensions of the IS200 or tranny / engine combo to see if it would fit on our cars. maybe the firewall needs to be modified in order to fit the tranny.

with any set-up custom mounts are needed, unless you go AWD and take the front axels out <<<< not recomended

[nik]

YOUR PROBABLY LOOK TO SPEND OVER $6000 AFTER EVERTHING IS SAID AND DONE BUT THERE ARE ALWAYS HIDDEN COST FOR MISC THINGS ON TOP OF THAT

This post has been edited by nik: Feb 10, 2009 - 2:05 PM

[playr158]

if AWD convertion is practical why wouldn't a RWD be it also ?

ST205 rear, custom driveshaft, for the front there are options, the one I've research the most is the a series engine / tranny combo.

4agze ( turbo the thing or it'll be slow )
RWD AE86 tranny

custom mounts

yes the engine / tranny fits with no modifications to the frame ( except for mounts ), the engine bay of our 6th gens is slightly bigger than the one of a AE86.

the other option is the 3sge / 3sgte engine with IS200 tranny, but I haven't found any dimensions of the IS200 or tranny / engine combo to see if it would fit on our cars. maybe the firewall needs to be modified in order to fit the tranny.

with any set-up custom mounts are needed, unless you go AWD and take the front axels out <<<< not recomended

do you KNOW the trans will fit with a longitude mounted motor? we have no trans tunnel unlike the AE86.
the IS motor will not fit without firewall work either.
also you forgot about the steering rack, you'll need a custom one cause it currently blocks any chance for a RWD trans.
so now you need a custom K-frame
you also would need custom work on the front knuckles with out a drive shaft in the center.
oh also do we know the ST205 rear has to be a reasonable match to the RWD trans gearing or you will be blowing differentials.

AWD is practical because 90% of the parts are a fit.
RWD means about 10% fit.

i see hardtarget is here, he knows more than anyone


This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 10, 2009 - 1:21 PM

[HARDTARGET]

if AWD convertion is practical why wouldn't a RWD be it also ?

ST205 rear, custom driveshaft, for the front there are options, the one I've research the most is the a series engine / tranny combo.

4agze ( turbo the thing or it'll be slow )
RWD AE86 tranny

custom mounts

yes the engine / tranny fits with no modifications to the frame ( except for mounts ), the engine bay of our 6th gens is slightly bigger than the one of a AE86.

the other option is the 3sge / 3sgte engine with IS200 tranny, but I haven't found any dimensions of the IS200 or tranny / engine combo to see if it would fit on our cars. maybe the firewall needs to be modified in order to fit the tranny.

with any set-up custom mounts are needed, unless you go AWD and take the front axels out <<<< not recomended

do you KNOW the trans will fit with a longitude mounted motor? we have no trans tunnel unlike the AE86.
the IS motor will not fit without firewall work either.
also you forgot about the steering rack, you'll need a custom one cause it currently blocks any chance for a RWD trans.
so now you need a custom K-frame
you also would need custom work on the front knuckles with out a drive shaft in the center.
oh also do we know the ST205 rear has to be a reasonable match to the RWD trans gearing or you will be blowing differentials.

AWD is practical because 90% of the parts are a fit.
RWD means about 10% fit.

i see hardtarget is here, he knows more than anyone

Anything is possible but you need a good fabricator that knows what he's doing and $$$. BUT IT CAN BE DONE

[99GT]

Why not just get at duece?

[playr158]

if AWD convertion is practical why wouldn't a RWD be it also ?

ST205 rear, custom driveshaft, for the front there are options, the one I've research the most is the a series engine / tranny combo.

4agze ( turbo the thing or it'll be slow )
RWD AE86 tranny

custom mounts

yes the engine / tranny fits with no modifications to the frame ( except for mounts ), the engine bay of our 6th gens is slightly bigger than the one of a AE86.

the other option is the 3sge / 3sgte engine with IS200 tranny, but I haven't found any dimensions of the IS200 or tranny / engine combo to see if it would fit on our cars. maybe the firewall needs to be modified in order to fit the tranny.

with any set-up custom mounts are needed, unless you go AWD and take the front axels out <<<< not recomended

do you KNOW the trans will fit with a longitude mounted motor? we have no trans tunnel unlike the AE86.
the IS motor will not fit without firewall work either.
also you forgot about the steering rack, you'll need a custom one cause it currently blocks any chance for a RWD trans.
so now you need a custom K-frame
you also would need custom work on the front knuckles with out a drive shaft in the center.
oh also do we know the ST205 rear has to be a reasonable match to the RWD trans gearing or you will be blowing differentials.

AWD is practical because 90% of the parts are a fit.
RWD means about 10% fit.

i see hardtarget is here, he knows more than anyone

Anything is possible but you need a good fabricator that knows what he's doing and $$$. BUT IT CAN BE DONE

precisely, which is why i say its not practical (though with $ anything is possible)

[Culpable04]

do you KNOW the trans will fit with a longitude mounted motor? we have no trans tunnel unlike the AE86.
the IS motor will not fit without firewall work either.
also you forgot about the steering rack, you'll need a custom one cause it currently blocks any chance for a RWD trans.
so now you need a custom K-frame
you also would need custom work on the front knuckles with out a drive shaft in the center.
oh also do we know the ST205 rear has to be a reasonable match to the RWD trans gearing or you will be blowing differentials.

AWD is practical because 90% of the parts are a fit.
RWD means about 10% fit.

i see hardtarget is here, he knows more than anyone

Let me ask you,
do you KNOW it doesn't fit ?

what are the dimensions of both engine bays (6th gen and AE86) ? the ST205 rear diff, is not strong enough to hold power of ~ 225 hp or above, I'm looking at the IS300 diff and so far SEEMS like it fits, but I'm waiting for a friend to call me when he has one on hand to take a closer look at it.

steering rack, knuckles, custom cross member, I can dig my list and give you all the little things that I found so far that needs to be done. I'm at work so I can't sit here and go through the whole thing.

you're a very smart member of 6gc, is your actitute what will keep you below ground surface. I really like a lot of your ideas and appreciate a lot of your inputs, but the way you present them make you look like a total @ $$.


if you read closer and slowly, I said the 3s MAY fit but I don't know since I haven't done my research on that and work to the firewall would be needed.

the 6th gen doesn't have a tranny tunel yet the AWD tranny fits and look at the shape it has, looks like it needs a tunel as well, doesn't it ? the shaft has been also accomodated even though we don't have a tunel meant for it.

you and me are almost on the same page, the problem is the way you question everything you haven't done. I could do the same to you. or I could show you my research, but since I'm a nice guy. I'll just stop it right here and keep my stuff on the low as ussual.

[playr158]

do you KNOW the trans will fit with a longitude mounted motor? we have no trans tunnel unlike the AE86.
the IS motor will not fit without firewall work either.
also you forgot about the steering rack, you'll need a custom one cause it currently blocks any chance for a RWD trans.
so now you need a custom K-frame
you also would need custom work on the front knuckles with out a drive shaft in the center.
oh also do we know the ST205 rear has to be a reasonable match to the RWD trans gearing or you will be blowing differentials.

AWD is practical because 90% of the parts are a fit.
RWD means about 10% fit.

i see hardtarget is here, he knows more than anyone

Let me ask you,
do you KNOW it doesn't fit ?

what are the dimensions of both engine bays (6th gen and AE86) ? the ST205 rear diff, is not strong enough to hold power of ~ 225 hp or above, I'm looking at the IS300 diff and so far SEEMS like it fits, but I'm waiting for a friend to call me when he has one on hand to take a closer look at it.

steering rack, knuckles, custom cross member, I can dig my list and give you all the little things that I found so far that needs to be done. I'm at work so I can't sit here and go through the whole thing.

you're a very smart member of 6gc, is your actitute what will keep you below ground surface. I really like a lot of your ideas and appreciate a lot of your inputs, but the way you present them make you look like a total @ $$.


if you read closer and slowly, I said the 3s MAY fit but I don't know since I haven't done my research on that and work to the firewall would be needed.

the 6th gen doesn't have a tranny tunel yet the AWD tranny fits and look at the shape it has, looks like it needs a tunel as well, doesn't it ? the shaft has been also accomodated even though we don't have a tunel meant for it.

you and me are almost on the same page, the problem is the way you question everything you haven't done. I could do the same to you. or I could show you my research, but since I'm a nice guy. I'll just stop it right here and keep my stuff on the low as ussual.

I'm an ass because i'm asking specific questions. you said "yes the engine / tranny fits with no modifications to the frame " which implies absolute, i was asking if you knew specifically.

And yes i question everything because thats how information gets found out....
and sorry at no one point did I ever insult or degrade your work so lets not get so defensive...
way to panty tight in here

you asked why RWD wasn't practical, I gave you my answer if you want to educationally debate that then feel free to.

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 10, 2009 - 3:15 PM

[MercuryFree]

Yeah if you've seen inside the bonnet of a 3sge altezza/is200 (rwd) the engine is mounted much further back than on traditional fwd 3sge powered cars. As has been mentioned, you'd definately need to hack up the firewall and fabricate custom mounts just to get the thing in there, before you even think about transmission tunnels and rear diffs. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[nik]

MY 2 CENTS

3SGTE
AWD TRANNY
AND REAR FROM GT4
THEN MOD THE TRANNY TO SEND FULL POWER TO THE REAR

LIKE WHAT THEY DO TO EVO'S A KIT THAT MAKES THEM RWD

This post has been edited by nik: Feb 10, 2009 - 5:30 PM

[Culpable04]

there are better ways to ask for info,
and I have a pre-generated image of you, so I'm not only talking about this post in particular.
as I said I could show you what I have found, but since I have better things to do, and you're perfectly capable of doing the research yourself, I'll leave it up to you to find answers.

the cost of a RWD coversion, won't be much different than a AWD convsertion on a ST assuming you or someone will do the custom work for free.

and yes I have price quotes, not including custom work which would ( in case I ever go through wioth this ) be done by a friend so cost is only for materials.

to the OP. I have some images I can send you, Pm me and I'll send you what I have when I get home.

[monkeywrench]

Forgive me for sounding stupid, but I thought it would be easier than that. So much of that went over my head, but I will definately write it down and remember it. Thankyou all for your help. I may end up doing this in the future.

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

a guy i know who lives in aus has a twin turbo and supercharged 1uz powered st185 group a. Had to hack the fnck outa the firewall and fabricate a tunnel. cant remember what the steering rack is from, but its now got no ackermans angle on the steering (if you dont know what this is dont even think of starting a rwd conversion.

it uses a jza-70 rear diff, bolts right up to the stock mounts, cant remember what driveshafts he used.

ohh and it makes over 400kw.

there is a couple of vids on youtube look up justen gt8.

If you have some mechanical knowledge and some skills with a welder (or know someone who is) and your good mates with and engineer your laughing. If not its going to cost you heaps.

dont forget he started with a gtfour. so all the arse end was already the right shape (fuel tank, diff recess etc) AND STREGNTH for having power in the arse.

dont mean you dampen your spirits but yeah.

[TRD_Ian]

if i was gonna go about this, i would search out an old supra chais and use it for parts, ie rear end and front end parts if possible, find a 2 jz and drop that, hack and weld and cut and bend ect ect to fit itno doubt need a custom drive shaft along with a bunch of other parts, i f iwanted to be simpler id fab up a 4 link in the back with a 9 ich, and get a small block and a small tranny in there, makes wiring easier, iv never looked into this so dont hate on me too much these are just ideas that come to mind when i think rear wheel drive celica, i was gonna do this to my tercel on time but decided to sell it, i wanted to be able to do wheelies lol