Changing the Valve Seals, who else has done this? Options

[tonytutino]

One of my friends offered to help me tackle this perpetual problem of my worn valve seals. I would never think about attempting this on my own, but he has a good deal of knowledge about this engine ( I bought the car off of him to begin with, he rebuilt the motor... but didn't change the seals... fail.) I did some searching and came up with a few things but not enough to really answer everything. Anyways, has anyone done this themselves? I would like to know what exactly I need to prepare for this, including the part number for the seals if anyone would be so kind as to source them. I'm 95% sure this is why i'm burning so much oil, not to mention my plugs get fouled within a few months.
I burn about 2 quarts a month and it is due time something is done about it. Thanks guys.

PS: If someone is willing to help, I would drive to you in a heart beat I don't have much money but I can totally provide delicious, ice cold beer.

[Hanyo]

it depends on how you tackle the valve seals.

Do you have the tools to do the valve seals without removing the engine head?

If you can get away with redoing the seals without removing the engine head, it should be pretty straight forward and takes maybe a day or two depending on how fast you work. Problem with this method is you need a special tool to remove the valve springs and a high pressure air compressor.

On the other hand if you remove the engine head. You can do a more through job and check to see if anything else is causing the oil burning. Removing the engine head add to the complexity of the job. The pros of doing it this way is you dont have to have specific tools. Generic valve spring press will work. The cons of removing the head is, well... you have to remove the engine head and deal with oil leaks/compression leaks/ ect.

My advice on this is to get a compression test on the engine and see how well your numbers turn on. If you have on weak cylinder, rip the head off and do a nice valve seat grind along with valve seals.

I recomend genuine toyota parts. I know autozone/advance/kragens can get you parts, but the simple matter of the fact is. Toyota parts rock.

[tonytutino]

I don't have the tools, but if it seems worth the investment i'll pick them up. How much does a compression test usually go for? I'd rather just get the compression checj tool myself too since thats something to have handy every now and then...

But yeah that sounds like a good start man, and I intend on using toyota parts for this

Edit: Bitter, your ATF theory intrigues me, but at the same time it almost seems to good to be true. Be that as it may, would you suggest i try this from the bat just to potentially save myself all this trouble?

This post has been edited by tonytutino: May 31, 2009 - 6:35 AM

[presure2]

tony, its quite an involved job to do the valve seals.
toyota normally charges ~800$ for the service.
a quick rundown of whats involved goes somthing like this:
you'll need to at the minimum remove the timing belt from the cam gear, remove the cam gear itself, and the cams, pull all the buckets (yes, you need to keep these in the correct order!!), then you need a way to keep the valves from falling into the cylinder when you remove the spring combo. thats where the air compressor comes in, you use the air from that, and fill the cylinder with air to keep the valves closed. then you can use a spring compressor of some type (Hurley97 works @ a toyota dealer, so she borrowed a cool tool that the master tech there made, to compress the springs and remove the keepers and retainers, pull the spring out, then pull the old valve seal out.
a 10mm deep socket works well to press in the new seals, then reinstall the spring and retainer, and another specialty tool to install the keepers. 4X on each cylinder, (16 valves total) and then you can put the car back together.
if your actually gonna do that, and your not sure when the last time things like the timing belt, water pump, cam seal, idler pully, and tensioner were replaced, you may want to at least inspect those peices and replace as needed as well, while its all apart.

ATF does work sometimes, it causes the rubber to swell alittle, which can help stop leaks, although with the way our valve seals harden over the years i dont think it will help much if yours are as bad as they sound.

[Hanyo]

I don't have the tools, but if it seems worth the investment i'll pick them up. How much does a compression test usually go for? I'd rather just get the compression checj tool myself too since thats something to have handy every now and then...

But yeah that sounds like a good start man, and I intend on using toyota parts for this

Edit: Bitter, your ATF theory intrigues me, but at the same time it almost seems to good to be true. Be that as it may, would you suggest i try this from the bat just to potentially save myself all this trouble?

do you have an autozone near you?


you can borrow their compression tester gauge for free as its part of there loan a tool service. Its a pretty simple test. with your engine warm, hook it up to your engine with the EFI fuse removed. and crank your engine for about 5 second. And repeat for each cylinder. write down the measurement of each cylinder and you get an idea how health your engine is.

[tonytutino]

yeah i've got one near, don't they require a deposit? I've yet to do the loaner tool thing from there.

[Hanyo]

yeah i've got one near, don't they require a deposit? I've yet to do the loaner tool thing from there.

yea its like 30 bucks for the deposit. call them up for the exact price with tax.

But its essentially free at the end.

[56willysnut]

Answered your PM. My son's 7AFE was burning two qts every tank, I installed new valve stem seals using an on engine type spring compressor that I bought off ebay ($75) I sure was hoping that it was going to stop burning oil, but it didn't slow it at all. I installed a JDM engine that I picked up for cheap. Be sure an get one of those magnet probe to help install the stem locks back in. and cover up the oil return ports on the head to keep the small locks from falling into the pan. If I was going to do it again, I'd pull the head and do them on the bench.

This post has been edited by 56willysnut: Jun 2, 2009 - 5:38 PM

[tonytutino]

^ hm i never got it?

anyways, my compression test showed me some bad numbers...

180:190:155:140

fantastic! /sarcasm>

[Hanyo]

^ hm i never got it?

anyways, my compression test showed me some bad numbers...

180:190:155:140

fantastic! /sarcasm>

did you poor some oil into the low compression piston to see if the numbers went back up? If you poor oil in and the compression is still low. Then you have a bad valve seat and it would be a good idea to pull the engine head off and use some valve seat grinding compound. If the compression goes back up after you poored oil in then you have a bad pision ring and you will need to redo the piston rings.

[tonytutino]

yep, did the wet test. bad valve seals ftw...

but i've come to the conclusion that i really can do nothing about this-- at least at this point in my life. I'm broke, jobless, and need an extra set of hands that actually knows what they're doing to tackle this job. I sure as hell am not going to spend a grand to get this fixed. This may seem irrational or dumb to not fix anything, but i literally can do nothing about it right now. I guess i'll just drive her until she burns up. Thanks for all the help/tips guys, this is why i love you 6gc.

[presure2]

while its not the best thing for the motor, as long as you keep checking and adding oil as needed, i would bet the motor will run for a good long while like that, tony.
as long as its not smoking like crazy constantly, you'll be fine driving it.

[56willysnut]

My bad on the Pm, anyway it pretty much covered what I posted I had it all typed out then thought I hit the send before I went back into the garage to work on the ST, I needed to replace the engine due to a teenage driver and lack of checking oil would do it in a short time. I bought a JDM engine off ebay.

Check oil at every fill up or top off, and it'll run fine until your able to do something about it.

[Bitter]

could be worn valve guides, just the seals themselves won't make you loose that much oil, but worn valve guides certainly can.

[blu94gt]

I'm about to tackle this job in a week, waiting for my wife to go out of town so I can use her car. So basically it's get this tool, then use compressed air (I'm guessing thru the same hose as my compression tester) to hold pressure in the cylinder while doing the valve work.

I've done valves on a Subaru, like 4 years ago, with the heads on a bench, but never done it on the car. I'd really like to avoid removing the head because then I'll be tempted to do all kinds of other stuff to the car lol (plus it's just more work).

Found these 2 valve tools online, are they any good?
tool 1
tool 2

[presure2]

I'm about to tackle this job in a week, waiting for my wife to go out of town so I can use her car. So basically it's get this tool, then use compressed air (I'm guessing thru the same hose as my compression tester) to hold pressure in the cylinder while doing the valve work.

I've done valves on a Subaru, like 4 years ago, with the heads on a bench, but never done it on the car. I'd really like to avoid removing the head because then I'll be tempted to do all kinds of other stuff to the car lol (plus it's just more work).

Found these 2 valve tools online, are they any good?
tool 1
tool 2

i doubt the first will work with the head in the car.
i dunno if the 2nd will fit in the head.

[blu94gt]

Picked up the new seals today, along with an overhead valve spring compressor. Getting my air compressor this weekend, should start teardown Sunday since my wife will be out of town and I can drive her car. Also got a can of Seafoam to run thru the motor afterwards to clean up any of the burnt-oil gunk. Will let you know how it goes! Anyone want some pics of how to do some of this stuff?

[GriffGirl]

Picked up the new seals today, along with an overhead valve spring compressor. Getting my air compressor this weekend, should start teardown Sunday since my wife will be out of town and I can drive her car. Also got a can of Seafoam to run thru the motor afterwards to clean up any of the burnt-oil gunk. Will let you know how it goes! Anyone want some pics of how to do some of this stuff?

Hellz yeah!

[MercuryFree]

Picked up the new seals today, along with an overhead valve spring compressor. Getting my air compressor this weekend, should start teardown Sunday since my wife will be out of town and I can drive her car. Also got a can of Seafoam to run thru the motor afterwards to clean up any of the burnt-oil gunk. Will let you know how it goes! Anyone want some pics of how to do some of this stuff?

Hellz yeah!

+1000, why even ask!

[Nartanian]

*cough* Sticky *cough*

This post has been edited by Nartanian: Jun 20, 2009 - 11:34 PM