Can a 4WD 3SGTE be swapped into a ST200 Carina ED?, Looking to get rid of the 4SFE next year Options

[Dickson]

Hey guys I asked this question nearly 6 months ago and got no response so am asking again as a separate topic now.
I have a 1996 Toyota Carina ED ST200 AT, which is essentially a 4 door Celica. I'm a month or so away from changing the OEM 14" wheels for some ROH 205/45R17 with Toyo Proxes 4 tyres.
I'm wanting to check the options of changing out the engine, which is a 4SFE front wheel drive, for hopefully a 4WD 3SGTE, and wanted the car to not show many signs of having had an engine swap, apart from obviously the fact that it would make different noise. An older topic made mention of how you could conceivably take out the 4SFE and change it to the 4WD ST205 3SGTE engine without serious mod work done to the chassis. I was wanting to confirm this but also get an idea of the cost and parts needed for such an endeavor. I'm not worried if it costs me a few thousand, I just want to do something unique yet looking very much sleeper. Can anyone give me some ideas please?

This post has been edited by Dickson: Aug 21, 2009 - 10:39 PM

[Superaison]

Personally, IDK.. but i'd like to see it done lol.

[Celiracer18]

IIRC there is a Carina model that is AWD so you might need the rear end from that and a 3S should fit up front. Do your research and it should be fairly straightforward if you can find the parts.

[Rusty]

would take alot of work to do 4WD to your car, a few people have done here and requires alot of work. IMO you might be best with a 3S-GTE & LSD FF transmission or going for the 4WD model in the first place and then just swapping the motor over?

also where bouts in NZ are you?

This post has been edited by Rusty: Aug 25, 2009 - 2:02 AM

[Dickson]

I'm currently living in Woburn, Lower Hutt. Just interested in trying the changeover next year once my money situation is back to normal. From what I've found though, the AWD version of the ED is pretty hard to come by.

[Dickson]

IIRC there is a Carina model that is AWD so you might need the rear end from that and a 3S should fit up front. Do your research and it should be fairly straightforward if you can find the parts.

The research part is quite difficult as the ED is fairly rare it seems. These are almost absent in Australia, low numbers in the states, and low numbers elsewhere. Funnily enough the low-spec 4SFE model seems relatively common here in New Zealand. There are no sites that I could find that would offer the right info about this car so I was hoping someone amongst these forums could point me in the right direction, especially in regards to what I'd need to get this conversion done.

[3WayStunna]

Dont see why it wouldnt. the car shares the same chasis codes, drivetrains, and engines as the celica! Maybe if you can, go to a junkyard or use someone else's celica for a side by side comparison.

http://www.cars-directory.net/specs/toyota/carina_ed/1996_6/

This post has been edited by 3WayStunna: Sep 2, 2009 - 9:03 AM

[Dickson]

Dont see why it wouldnt. the car shares the same chasis codes, drivetrains, and engines as the celica! Maybe if you can, go to a junkyard or use someone else's celica for a side by side comparison.

http://www.cars-directory.net/specs/toyota/carina_ed/1996_6/

Awesome. I guess if I pull it off it'll be quite a unique job. I haven't come across anyone else who has tried doing work on a Toyota ED, and as it is my first car I purchased, I'd love to keep it and get this done to it. I guess once it comes to fruition it'll be awesome to have pictures taken of all the work. Once I do that you guys can have a look eh? Just to digress though, what do you think I really need to consider when having the work done? Anything important I need to keep in mind (besides the pricetag and the fact it'll take some time)?

This post has been edited by Dickson: Sep 5, 2009 - 11:22 AM

[Rusty]

installing the rear subframe for AWD might run into problems there??

also watch out for getting it cert'd, get it all done at once (ie bigger engine, turbo, AWD) and adjustable suspension if your going to do it aswell.


^ check the LTSA website for more info on that

[Dickson]

installing the rear subframe for AWD might run into problems there??

also watch out for getting it cert'd, get it all done at once (ie bigger engine, turbo, AWD) and adjustable suspension if your going to do it aswell.


^ check the LTSA website for more info on that

Cheers Rusty, yeah I'm planning to have the engine, turbo and AWD all done at once. I plan to get a $300 dunger to drive around in while the work takes place next year. I imagine to get it done is going to cost at least $5000, so I won't be doing this for possibly another 12 months but I'm very keen to do it and see it through. Of course, the temptation is there to swap the CT20b turbo for a T88.......

But that can wait.

[cloqwise]

Usually what i say to people like this is just buy a GT4 ha but if you are determined to see it through you can always keep it at 2wd which would be easier by using the gearbox off an mr2.

[Dickson]

Usually what i say to people like this is just buy a GT4 ha but if you are determined to see it through you can always keep it at 2wd which would be easier by using the gearbox off an mr2.

Yeah but by definition a GT4 can't really look sleeper, the minute someone sees it they know it's different to the bog-standard Celica. The ED seems to use a lot of similar parts to the Celica, but didn't have anything better than the 3SGE engine. I get irritated by these people in WRXs and Skylines constantly wanting to show off their turbos, knowing that my car has no chance compared to theirs. I'd love to see the looks on their faces when they realise that they picked out a car that was anything but what they expected it to be. Plus it would be a very unique job as well, I would like to find out if anyone at all had ever tried it with the ED.

[cloqwise]

Usually what i say to people like this is just buy a GT4 ha but if you are determined to see it through you can always keep it at 2wd which would be easier by using the gearbox off an mr2.

Yeah but by definition a GT4 can't really look sleeper, the minute someone sees it they know it's different to the bog-standard Celica. The ED seems to use a lot of similar parts to the Celica, but didn't have anything better than the 3SGE engine. I get irritated by these people in WRXs and Skylines constantly wanting to show off their turbos, knowing that my car has no chance compared to theirs. I'd love to see the looks on their faces when they realise that they picked out a car that was anything but what they expected it to be. Plus it would be a very unique job as well, I would like to find out if anyone at all had ever tried it with the ED.

Haha my friend who has rich parents and finally admitted to me a few months ago he uses mummy and daddys money is a complete nut for cars and did a very similar thing to what you are thinking. He bought a 1981 brown honda civic i think it was and put a prelude engine in it. He even put old peoples stuff in the car to trick people until he put his foot down. Never got to see it in the flesh unfortunately, however what you are thinking of is unique but is this the right reason to do it? To be honest from my experience not a lot of people know what a GT4 is unless on these forums, I never knew they existed until 2007 and i had been in my mates a year or so earlier and just thought it was a celica.

Have you found somewhere that can do it? You can put any engine in any car just need to fabricate new mounts but obviously there is a lot more to take into account once the engine is in. Is the carina front wheel drive?

[Dickson]

Usually what i say to people like this is just buy a GT4 ha but if you are determined to see it through you can always keep it at 2wd which would be easier by using the gearbox off an mr2.

Yeah but by definition a GT4 can't really look sleeper, the minute someone sees it they know it's different to the bog-standard Celica. The ED seems to use a lot of similar parts to the Celica, but didn't have anything better than the 3SGE engine. I get irritated by these people in WRXs and Skylines constantly wanting to show off their turbos, knowing that my car has no chance compared to theirs. I'd love to see the looks on their faces when they realise that they picked out a car that was anything but what they expected it to be. Plus it would be a very unique job as well, I would like to find out if anyone at all had ever tried it with the ED.

Haha my friend who has rich parents and finally admitted to me a few months ago he uses mummy and daddys money is a complete nut for cars and did a very similar thing to what you are thinking. He bought a 1981 brown honda civic i think it was and put a prelude engine in it. He even put old peoples stuff in the car to trick people until he put his foot down. Never got to see it in the flesh unfortunately, however what you are thinking of is unique but is this the right reason to do it? To be honest from my experience not a lot of people know what a GT4 is unless on these forums, I never knew they existed until 2007 and i had been in my mates a year or so earlier and just thought it was a celica.

Have you found somewhere that can do it? You can put any engine in any car just need to fabricate new mounts but obviously there is a lot more to take into account once the engine is in. Is the carina front wheel drive?

Yeah it is front wheel drive. I want to get it changed over to AWD, this was available in the ST205 version of the ED, which is very difficult to find here in NZ. I have the ST200 version and recall reading when I asked this question about 7 months ago that the ST200 could potentially have the AWD/4WD swap done without needing any serious mods to the chassis. I haven't been able to find out much in the way of info about what the differences between the ST200 and 205 were, if at all, but would be keen in either scenario to go ahead with this. The thing about it being unique isn't the only reason, sooner or later the 4SFE will need to have work done once it starts to die, and I'd rather biff it and dump in a much nicer engine, swap it up to AWD from FWD, lower it once the 17s have been chucked on, and then do further work on it over the next couple of years. I was told recently that lowering a front wheel drive is not a good idea, it is safer on RWD and A/4WD, FWD doesn't handle it so well supposedly.

This post has been edited by Dickson: Sep 7, 2009 - 12:14 PM