Swap: 3sge Beams into 94GT-RIP=DEAD Options

[turnip]

70mph and wall equals the devastation.













Good Day All.

I have some questions that i did not get from trolling and searchings. I hope that the some of the swap gurus can chime in.

Project: Swap 6gen JDM 3SGE Beams into 1994 USDM GT.
Goals: 200whp and reliability
Use: Race - Car will be completely gutted including all glass and prepped for racing.

Current setup is a stock 5SFE with 60k miles.
Transplanting 3SGE Beams and LSD S54 tranny. Yet to be procured. I have few I am looking at with money in hand.

Drivetrain - The 5SFE has an S54 on it and I assume that the axles and clutch will interchange?
Question#1 - Did any of the USDM Celicas with the S54 have stock LSD?
Question#2 - Flywheel and clutch upgrade? What are my options?

Electrical - Since its a same Gen Celica did the harnesses drastically change over the lifecycle of the 6th Gen? Pre Post OdbII?
Question#1 - Can someone confirm that the stock USDM harness will plug and play with the ECU and Beams? With exception to wires being lenghted to accomodate RHD vs LHD.
Question#2 - If my assumptions for one is complete off please guide me in the correct direction.
Question#3 - Dash Cluster - Racing I really do not care about speed as much as temps and RPM. I do not want to buy an JDM dash cluster is there a work around to make the stock one work? Otherwise will likely go the DEFI Link route.
Question#4 ODBII vs ODB1 The 94 is ODB1. The Beams will be ODBII Has anyone got this to work on a pre 96 vehicle? I only ask as ODB is a good way to check sensor failure vs the plug and play method.


Tuning
Goal of 200whp with Intake, Exhaust upgrade, no cat, no P/S, no A/C, Flywheel upgrade, ecu, ect.
Questions1 - Does anyone have experience with any of the JDM ECUs such as Mines, Toms, I.Mec, Blitz?
Question#2 - Headers any experience with C-One, Apexi, HKS, Fujitsubo?
Question#3 - Crank/Balancer Pulley.. Is there one?


Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by turnip: Oct 7, 2011 - 8:57 AM

[njccmd2002]

http://www.mr2.com/forums/beams/

youll find more answers in that forum.

[BonzaiCelica]

first off. Welcome to the site. 6gc.net is the best resource for celica information. probably the best forums out of all the other celica websites. I see that your pretty new around here. One thing you should do before asking some basic questions about the great beams redtop. Use the search button in the top right hand corner. Search for words such as 3sge, 3sge beams, Beams. then come back to this thread and most of your questions should be answered.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Aug 26, 2009 - 2:24 PM

[turnip]

http://www.mr2.com/forums/beams/

youll find more answers in that forum.

Thank you this will be very helpful.

[turnip]

first off. Welcome to the site. 6gc.net is the best resource for celica information. probably the best forums out of all the other celica websites. I see that your pretty new around here. One thing you should do before asking some basic questions about the great beams redtop. Use the search button in the top right hand corner. Search for words such as 3sge, 3sge beams, Beams. then come back to this thread and most of your questions should be answered.

Thanks. I have logged a ton of hours searching not only this forum but the half a dozen other forums regarding Celicas and Beams. You definitly find useful information but a lot of the threads did not seem to be totally definitive.

As for the Beams this will be the second one I have owned. The first one was out of an SXE/Altezza which keith at RPM sent me for my 71 corona. Unfortunately it would not fit do to the sub frame and steering rack. I wish I would have kept it.

Please find me a thread discussing 3SGE Swap discussing OBDII /OBD2 functionality with a OBDI / OBD1. Search is a valuable tool but 3SGE and Beams are broad in scope especially on this forum. I tried running +Beams+OBDII and it returned 24 pages. Whats the best way to narrow down my search results from 24 pages?

Im here to learn.

This post has been edited by turnip: Aug 26, 2009 - 4:42 PM

[Batman722]

Good Day All.

I have some questions that i did not get from trolling and searchings. I hope that the some of the swap gurus can chime in.

Project: Swap 6gen JDM 3SGE Beams into 1994 USDM GT.
Goals: 200whp and reliability
Use: Race - Car will be completely gutted including all glass and prepped for racing.

Current setup is a stock 5SFE with 60k miles.
Transplanting 3SGE Beams and LSD S54 tranny. Yet to be procured. I have few I am looking at with money in hand.

Drivetrain - The 5SFE has an S54 on it and I assume that the axles and clutch will interchange?
Question#1 - Did any of the USDM Celicas with the S54 have stock LSD?
No
Question#2 - Flywheel and clutch upgrade? What are my options?
you would need a 3s or resurfaced beams flywheel and 3s pressure plate, with a 5s disk and throw out bearing (hybrid kit)
Electrical - Since its a same Gen Celica did the harnesses drastically change over the lifecycle of the 6th Gen? Pre Post OdbII?
Question#1 - Can someone confirm that the stock USDM harness will plug and play with the ECU and Beams? With exception to wires being lenghted to accomodate RHD vs LHD.
Lengthen the wires, yes. The harness isn't plug and play, a couple of wires have to be re-pinned.
Question#2 - If my assumptions for one is complete off please guide me in the correct direction.
see above
Question#3 - Dash Cluster - Racing I really do not care about speed as much as temps and RPM. I do not want to buy an JDM dash cluster is there a work around to make the stock one work? Otherwise will likely go the DEFI Link route.
just use whats in the car. everything will still work just fine.
Question#4 ODBII vs ODB1 The 94 is ODB1. The Beams will be ODBII Has anyone got this to work on a pre 96 vehicle? I only ask as ODB is a good way to check sensor failure vs the plug and play method.
overseas there is no OBD anything, just engines. US cars are OBDI and II, putting a non OBDX engine in a OBDII car (96+) is gonna be a problem for state inspections.

Tuning
Goal of 200whp with Intake, Exhaust upgrade, no cat, no P/S, no A/C, Flywheel upgrade, ecu, ect.
Questions1 - Does anyone have experience with any of the JDM ECUs such as Mines, Toms, I.Mec, Blitz?
for the beams, most use an ecu piggyback like an e-manage or safc
Question#2 - Headers any experience with C-One, Apexi, HKS, Fujitsubo?
?
Question#3 - Crank/Balancer Pulley.. Is there one?
?


Thanks in advance.

[njccmd2002]

Good Day All.

I have some questions that i did not get from trolling and searchings. I hope that the some of the swap gurus can chime in.

Project: Swap 6gen JDM 3SGE Beams into 1994 USDM GT.
Goals: 200whp and reliability
Use: Race - Car will be completely gutted including all glass and prepped for racing.

Current setup is a stock 5SFE with 60k miles.
Transplanting 3SGE Beams and LSD S54 tranny. Yet to be procured. I have few I am looking at with money in hand.

Drivetrain - The 5SFE has an S54 on it and I assume that the axles and clutch will interchange?
Question#1 - Did any of the USDM Celicas with the S54 have stock LSD?
No
Question#2 - Flywheel and clutch upgrade? What are my options?
you would need a 3s or resurfaced beams flywheel and 3s pressure plate, with a 5s disk and throw out bearing (hybrid kit)
Electrical - Since its a same Gen Celica did the harnesses drastically change over the lifecycle of the 6th Gen? Pre Post OdbII?
Question#1 - Can someone confirm that the stock USDM harness will plug and play with the ECU and Beams? With exception to wires being lenghted to accomodate RHD vs LHD.
Lengthen the wires, yes. The harness isn't plug and play, a couple of wires have to be re-pinned.
Question#2 - If my assumptions for one is complete off please guide me in the correct direction.
see above
Question#3 - Dash Cluster - Racing I really do not care about speed as much as temps and RPM. I do not want to buy an JDM dash cluster is there a work around to make the stock one work? Otherwise will likely go the DEFI Link route.
just use whats in the car. everything will still work just fine.
Question#4 ODBII vs ODB1 The 94 is ODB1. The Beams will be ODBII Has anyone got this to work on a pre 96 vehicle? I only ask as ODB is a good way to check sensor failure vs the plug and play method.
overseas there is no OBD anything, just engines. US cars are OBDI and II, putting a non OBDX engine in a OBDII car (96+) is gonna be a problem for state inspections.

Tuning
Goal of 200whp with Intake, Exhaust upgrade, no cat, no P/S, no A/C, Flywheel upgrade, ecu, ect.
Questions1 - Does anyone have experience with any of the JDM ECUs such as Mines, Toms, I.Mec, Blitz?
for the beams, most use an ecu piggyback like an e-manage or safc
Question#2 - Headers any experience with C-One, Apexi, HKS, Fujitsubo?
?
Question#3 - Crank/Balancer Pulley.. Is there one?
?


Thanks in advance.

ha, this is going to my notebook. Ill be asking you questions in 3 months.

[turnip]

Appreciate all the help Batman. Here is the link i was reading stating that in 1996 ODBII became a worldwide standard. http://www.ecutek.com/tuning/history/

I will definitely research the flywheel clutch setup a little more as thats a definite upgrade including timing belt and water pump.

I am looking at a couple engines right now on ebay. The local ones only have the trans mount and missing the other two. Has anyone dealt with these guys http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-ST202-3...#ht_1695wt_1098

Thanks again.

[njccmd2002]

where are you..

[BonzaiCelica]

uh hold on a sec Batman. whats that your saying about using a 5sfe throw out disk and bearing. The s54 on 3sge redtop is a helical lsd. So stock axles from usdm gt celica will fit into the tranny correct.

I heard that obd II will help better tune the car, if you decide to do so. If thats even true or not....

http://www.nengun.com/toyota/celica-st202 check out that site. some stuff for the 3sge redtop.

[turnip]

where are you..

*.*

This post has been edited by turnip: Aug 30, 2009 - 8:57 PM

[turnip]

And it begins.

Picked Up Today


Optimistic to have this out tomorrow


Now for the fun part. I got a hell of a deal on the engine including LSD. Down side is that it did not come with the fuse panel from the JDM Celica. So I have printed off every wiring diagram I can find and any insight to getting this wiring project would be appreciated. I am debating on to cut the 5sfe and splice it in or just go to the junk yard and grab another 5sfe as do plan on selling the 5sfe since it only has 60k on it.



This post has been edited by turnip: Aug 31, 2009 - 12:46 PM

[Batman722]

uh hold on a sec Batman. whats that your saying about using a 5sfe throw out disk and bearing.

the flywheel and the pressure plate is a 3s.
the disk is 5sfe (or just buy the acutal beams disk) and tob is s54.
that's what I'm saying.

The s54 on 3sge redtop is a helical lsd. So stock axles from usdm gt celica will fit into the tranny correct.

I'm very aware of that.

[BonzaiCelica]

oh ok thanks.

[njccmd2002]

Congratulations, i recognize that beams, i think, wow, another one. There will be 4 beams celi that i know of. Good luck, did that engine come with the afm?

[turnip]

Congratulations, i recognize that beams, i think, wow, another one. There will be 4 beams celi that i know of. Good luck, did that engine come with the afm?

Sure do. My biggest hurdle is going to be wiring up that fuse box. Gonna get it in and running and then gonna pull it back out to service. I want to put a new clutch, F/W, Water pump, timing, ect. Want to make sure I test her out before the warranty goes by by.

Hoping some of the swap gurus can weight in on my cut harness. I got the 5sfe about ready to come out. Hopefully wed night.

[Outsider]

Can I assume that all of those cut wires come from the EA1 plug that is under the fuse box in the engine bay?

[turnip]

Those cut wire represent the beams harness lead that goes to the fuse box. It includes the ones going to the plug and to the front relays for ST/EFI/Alt-100amp/60Main.

I have identified all of the wire from harness to harness I believe based on colors. There are a few that are different.

- The black/yellow with silver rings from the 94gt harness looks to match up with the beams black/red with silver rings. EDIT *Confirmed*

Not Sure Wires on Beams
- solid black 16gauge EDIT *This wire is a larger gauge black with orange stripe on 94gt*
- black with red line 16 gauge EDIT *This wire seems to be extra and not on the 94GT*

94Gt Harness not matched
- black with orange stripe 12 gauge on plug EDIT *This wire is all black on the Beams harness*
- blue 7.5 SRS wire 18 gauge

94gt plug with the black/Orange wire


94gt Front Fuse upside down


Beam Plug - I do not have this.


Beams Harness lead to fuse box that was cut.


Any insight is appreciated.
Thanks

Can I assume that all of those cut wires come from the EA1 plug that is under the fuse box in the engine bay?

This post has been edited by turnip: Sep 2, 2009 - 10:00 AM

[trdproven]

uh hold on a sec Batman. whats that your saying about using a 5sfe throw out disk and bearing.

the flywheel and the pressure plate is a 3s.
the disk is 5sfe (or just buy the acutal beams disk) and tob is s54.
that's what I'm saying.

The s54 on 3sge redtop is a helical lsd. So stock axles from usdm gt celica will fit into the tranny correct.

I'm very aware of that.

Actually it is 3s flywheel, 3s pressure plate, 3s disk with 5s spline, 5s TOB. 5s disk like Manny showed is too small for the 3s flywheel.

[njccmd2002]

So any 3 s will do, fidanza aluminum for the 3sgte ?