3sge Beams into 98 GT Options

[BonzaiCelica]

this section is about 3sge beams redtop. not about the 3sgte. if you want to find out information about swapping that engine into your celica use the search button on the top right hand corner. also look for stickies.

do not double post!!! just wait for replies on your thread that you posted.

you can use a walbro fuel pump. buy one from dr tweak http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=61600&st=0

where did you find that information that you can use a 97-99 afm for the 4th gen 3sge??

about the fuel filter, my guess is you can use one from a 3rd gen 3sge, it would be a much easier part to find than looking for a 4th gen filter.


This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 11, 2009 - 2:04 PM

[njccmd2002]

damm - problem is back now, but a bit different from before - it shuts off at low rpm during idle and while coasting in neutral. I think the cylinder head gasket might be an issue. It was driving fine for about 70 miles until I was on my way home last night when it started, now its occuring regularly at low rpm.

When it stalls - I can start it up again and it would stay, but if i give it a little gas and release - RPM would drop and drop all the way down then dies. When I have time I'll work on it again. Sooner or later I'll get this engine working 100%. I wonder should I get a compression test to confirm my speculations.

Holy crap, hope you dont have to rebuild that engine, cause just the gasket set is about 300+ imported from aussie, could it be the afm, in not engine savvy. What gas are you using?

[BonzaiCelica]

what do you mean what gas is he using?? you have 93 octane in your state right? wow $300 for engine gasket kit damn!!!! what does that kit include. front and rear main seal, valve cover gasket???

[2bcelica]

are you gettin any check engine light coming up?


I reckon you have a fault something to do with the AFM or TB sensors, did you do your smoke test??

No CEL - I haven't done a smoke test as I intended. I tested the AFM by pulling it out of the intake piping while engine on - and it would sputter and shut off, so I think its fine. TB sensors - not sure, but really hate to replace it if its workin.

Hey, besides the engine, did it come with all the sensors needed?

which fuel pump did you use, and what about ignitors and stuff, fuel filters?

Engine came complete with all sensors. I did not replace the fuel pump as its the same part number as our ST204. Beams don't use ignitors . I replaced fuel filter with brand new one (althought it could be bad). I just ordered a normal fuel filter for a ST204, since I didn't think there's any difference beside its size.

AFM is the same in the avalon 97 - 99, just found that!!

Me too after reading some post on MR2 forum -- Good thing too, cause I saw some ebay Short RAM and CAI for good price. about $40 for the kit that has the AFM adapter I need and use a better filter instead of theirs.

Out of curiousity I was wondering if there was probably a stored CEL maybe not showing up, so I tested by grounding the Tc pin and the CEL would continuously flash and not stop until I remove the key. Does this mean there is no CEL or I have a serious issue some where. I really doubt my head gasket is an issue because I don't have any fluid leaks any where.

I could take it some where and have them run a diagnosis, but just afraid to hear the words "I'm not sure whats wrong, since readings seems to be normal".

[Rusty]

check your oil to see if milky and do a compression test.

[2bcelica]

check your oil to see if milky and do a compression test.

Thanks - oil not milky -- I was about to do a comprssion test - then it started to rain like hell - Another task for another day.

[njccmd2002]

how about having the injectors cleaned, if the engine has been sitting, could they be clogged. or have gas crap

on the cel issue, how do you test the beams, did you use the 5sfe harness and make the changes, or use the beams harness and make the changes.

are you using a scanner, I or II. maybe that the scaner may not communicate correctly

reason i ask of the harness is the conector for the scanner

[Rusty]

right just been reading the 3gen 3sge repair manual to get a better idea, altough some things wont apply(like dizzy and you have a AFM). I dont know really what you've done when you swapped over, so i'll help as best I can.

damm - problem is back now, but a bit different from before - it shuts off at low rpm during idle and while coasting in neutral. I think the cylinder head gasket might be an issue. It was driving fine for about 70 miles until I was on my way home last night when it started, now its occuring regularly at low rpm.

When it stalls - I can start it up again and it would stay, but if i give it a little gas and release - RPM would drop and drop all the way down then dies. When I have time I'll work on it again. Sooner or later I'll get this engine working 100%. I wonder should I get a compression test to confirm my speculations.

looking into those


Poor idle: ignition curcuit, water temp sensor circuit, idle speed control valve, vacuum sensors, Injectors, fuel pump, fuel quality, fuel regulator, sparkplugs, coil packs, fuel lines, timing belt, TBPosition Sensor
Stalling (quite a few are also in here, which I wont add): ECU and maybe your CAS (crank angle sensor)

start form the easy stuff (so you dont need to take the motor half about to change sparkplugs)

This post has been edited by Rusty: Sep 13, 2009 - 12:57 AM

[erahman85]

Do the celica GT coil packs work with the BEAMS??

[NWCelica]

Have you checked the TPS or IAC ?

[presure2]

Do the celica GT coil packs work with the BEAMS??

there are no coil packs on the 5s. for the beams, its distributorless. the coils are attached to the tops of the spark plug tubes.

[Edophus]

Do the celica GT coil packs work with the BEAMS??

there are no coil packs on the 5s. for the beams, its distributorless. the coils are attached to the tops of the spark plug tubes.

yeah, and they have some ignition circuitry built into the coil aswell, if there was a problem with the coils it would likely show up as the engine cutting out a second or so after starting, same as if the crank sensor and cam sensor was broken, the ecu wouldnt be able to match up the timing so would shut it off within seconds of starting, i *think* anyway. You'd definetly have a cel anyway.

I'd start with the obvious stuff like making sure the idle control valve is clean and working right, sounds a bit like its closing and not letting enough air bypass the throttle plate.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Sep 13, 2009 - 5:16 PM

[2bcelica]

A long over due completion. After exhausting all ideas. I took the cylinder head off and there was my problem. The camshaft timing was off. Who ever rebuilt this engine in the past misaligned the camshaft timing during the rebuild and I can't believe they let it run like that. I wonder how long it was running in poor condition.

The sputtering is gone now and runs very smooth. Idles so much better. The ECU had to adjust to the new change. Drove it around town, in and out of traffic for 30 minutes and its better then it has been. Just in time for the DFW meet Saturday.

[njccmd2002]

did you use the same gaskets.

how did you know it was the timing? tips?

[BonzaiCelica]

glad to hear you fixed the problem in time for the meet! nice job

im sure you noticed a gain in power???

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 23, 2009 - 9:39 PM

[turnip]

Thats great to hear you have the issue resolved.

I would imagine it was just off by a tooth on the cam gear. This would cause the VVTI lobe on the cam shaft not read properly with the cam sensor. Can you elaborate on the issue? I am curious.

[2bcelica]

did you use the same gaskets.

how did you know it was the timing? tips?

Yeah I used the same gakets, but added silicone to it. I never trust just using gaskets by itself. THe silicone will make it leak proof.

glad to hear you fixed the problem in time for the meet! nice job

im sure you noticed a gain in power???

A definite gain and the AFM is sucking in more air then before- make a more powerful intake noise.

Thats great to hear you have the issue resolved.

I would imagine it was just off by a tooth on the cam gear. This would cause the VVTI lobe on the cam shaft not read properly with the cam sensor. Can you elaborate on the issue? I am curious.

the answer lies here -- http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticle...ming/index.html

- its for a mustang, but same policy applies to any car. Look at the pictures at bottom on page one - thats what I did . (with engine still in of course, ) I figured pictures are worth more then a thousand words. It was the inner camshaft (towards firewall) that was the issue.

This post has been edited by 2bcelica: Sep 24, 2009 - 10:45 AM

[turnip]

So timing was off. I had that happen on my other race car when I first started messing with upgrading cams. Its critical to make sure those cams are and the crankshaft is lined up perfectly when replacing the timing belt. One really has to check it often as most of the time the tensioner moves the cams a degree or two when you put pressure back on the belt. With VVTI its much more critical than non VVTI.

This post has been edited by turnip: Sep 24, 2009 - 11:11 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

The first vid you made of your cars acceleration seemed pretty slow. You should make another vid so we can see true 100% working redtop motor.

[2bcelica]

Just put in a DIY intake kit this morning. Not exactly where I want the filter, but it'll do for now. The filter is an old one from te 5S. I'll get a K&N one later.









This post has been edited by 2bcelica: Sep 24, 2009 - 4:35 PM