4A-GE 20V + 6Speed + 1.8l displacement, omg, am I crazy only thining it? Advices please!! Options

[Demios]

Hi there!
I'm sooo excited! I just read some info on the web about the last 4A-GE 20Valves built for some Corolla and thought this:

Is it possible swap a 4A-GE 20Valves (it doesn't matter if a Black or Silver top, the difference explained in the documents I read is not that much) into a Celica with the 6 speed manual gearbox made with some blacktop?

And secondly, is it possible and wise increase the displacement of the engine from 1.6l to 1.8l? If yes 'cause this doesn't give problems to the intake and this one is large enought to support 0.2l more, wich parts must be used? I mean, the only difference is the stroke so i need the 7A block or i can do that with something smaller?

[nik]

yes all this can be done its been done before

we have a couple people on here with 20v swaps

and 2 of us with 7afe bottom with a 4ag head

i have a turbo big port head on a 7afe bottom fully built putting out 300 whp on 12 psi this is my low dd setting

just google 7age or 7agte

there are also threads on here of my full build

[Demios]

Yes, i read the topics, and saw the 20v in the engine bay of some member, but i didn't found anything about the 6speed gearbox, and nothing about the results of a 7A-GE 20V NA, and not turboed

[playr158]

most swaps are done with the 5spd (C56?! trans)

[nik]

Yes, i read the topics, and saw the 20v in the engine bay of some member, but i didn't found anything about the 6speed gearbox, and nothing about the results of a 7A-GE 20V NA, and not turboed

i personally dont think the 6speed is anything special it would be ok in an 7age n/a form

cost wise / part wise i would just go with the 5 speed C56

C56
A 5-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars.

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.166 1.904 1.392 1.031 0.815 3.250 4.312

Applications:

Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Starlet Glanza V
Toyota AE101 Levin/Trueno (Later Years only)
Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota MR2 Spyder (US/UK/JP) (mid-engine application)


C160
A 6-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars including an optional limited slip differential. Transmission with identification code ending with 12C are LSD equipped. Code ending with 12A are non-LSD. LSD options were not available in the Wagons (ae101 corolla and ae111 carib)

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Reverse Final
3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725 3.250 4.529

Applications:

Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota AE101 Corolla Wagon (1997 onwards (BZ models only)
Toyota AE111 Carib
Toyota AE111 Corolla GT

[delusionz]

4age is good in a small car like a Levin, But is piss weak in the heavier Celica.

3S-GE or GTE is what you want. The poor little 4age would have to rev to 4000 just to bring up some torque to get the car rolling.

[soulshadow]

4age is good in a small car like a Levin, But is piss weak in the heavier Celica.

3S-GE or GTE is what you want. The poor little 4age would have to rev to 4000 just to bring up some torque to get the car rolling.

X2

Its like putting a 4 cylinder in a semi truck.

[bdub215]

how about a 2zz?? its about the same price as a blacktop and has more displacement with VVTL-i. sounds good to me.

[delusionz]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1311

haha corrected the link

This post has been edited by delusionz: Oct 21, 2009 - 10:39 PM

[97lestyousay]

I wonder sometimes how many people have ever even driven a 4a that talk about
it. The 4a has different gear ratios to go along with its power curve (rolla c56 vs celi c56).
I have been driving my ae92 for 3 years without 3rd or 4th gear, so The lack of torque, yeah it is
huge. My little stock 16v 4a would stomp the crap out of my stock 7afe no question about it.
The huge wieght difference between a rolla and a celica is about 250 lbs as covered already
in another thread.

[delusionz]

What are you trying to say? The guy has a GT, a 4age would be a downgrade from a 5sfe. It would be a downgrade from a 3sfe.

[97lestyousay]

I was reading about a guy wanting to swap a 4a and getting the usual dribble about
how the 4a has no torque and no power and the celi is a giant tub of lard compared
to the levin. I didn't see where he said he was thinking of changing a 5sfe. I guess
because it says gt hatchback under his name that is what he is doing.
What are you trying to say?

[delusionz]

I'm trying to say I don't see why anyone would want 6 speeds of no power at twice the revs?

Yeah it's cool to have an 8000 redline and an extra gear but there is no advantage to it, the cruising revs on a BZ-R Levin is around 3500 - 4000 compared to 2000 in a Celica. They're both doing the same work, yet one has to strain twice as hard to do it. The maximum power at 8000 is negligibly higher than the maximum power of a 5sfe at 5000. A Levin takes off at those revs because it lacks the equiv in weight of a really fat person (250 pounds or 100+ kilos as you mention). If you put your mother in your passenger seat of your Corolla you'd see what I mean.

The extra gear and the higher redline would be good if the engine was something like the one that resides in the RS200 Altezza, Now that would be an upgrade since there wouldn't be a loss in torque and power, it would be similar torque extended a wee bit longer -- 7600 RPM of 2 Liter high compression power.

Lets face it, its unfortunate but the Celica was never designed to be a high revving 6 speed monster and I don't think you've added anything to this thread to suggest otherwise.

[delusionz]

EDIT: You might as well get new dials which places 0-8000 revs inbetween where it would normally mark 0-6000, it would be cheaper and give the same effect as putting a 4age in place of a 5sfe. End of story?

[97lestyousay]

I'm trying to say I don't see why anyone would want 6 speeds of no power at twice the revs?

Yeah it's cool to have an 8000 redline and an extra gear but there is no advantage to it, the cruising revs on a BZ-R Levin is around 3500 - 4000 compared to 2000 in a Celica. They're both doing the same work, yet one has to strain twice as hard to do it. The maximum power at 8000 is negligibly higher than the maximum power of a 5sfe at 5000. A Levin takes off at those revs because it lacks the equiv in weight of a really fat person (250 pounds or 100+ kilos as you mention). If you put your mother in your passenger seat of your Corolla you'd see what I mean.

The extra gear and the higher redline would be good if the engine was something like the one that resides in the RS200 Altezza, Now that would be an upgrade since there wouldn't be a loss in torque and power, it would be similar torque extended a wee bit longer -- 7600 RPM of 2 Liter high compression power.

Lets face it, its unfortunate but the Celica was never designed to be a high revving 6 speed monster and I don't think you've added anything to this thread to suggest otherwise.

and again WHERE THE HELL DOES HE SAY HE IS REPLACING A 5SFE?

[97lestyousay]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=70123

wtf?

[devilsden97]

so much LOL in this thread.

[delusionz]

5sfe where it says GT hatchback. I don't know of any GT hatchbacks with a 7afe, Infact if its not a 5sfe it's probably a 3sge - Swapping out a 3sge for a 4age is even more crazy.

I edited the link, I didnt mean to bring it back here lol

[97lestyousay]

Some people do own more than one Celica. I wouldn't recommend
anyone to swap an S for an A series engine. I can't imagine why anyone
would even ask that question if that is indeed the question.



I will ask my Mom to go for a ride.

[Kwanza26]

20V will pwn a 5SFE in a race... yeah... I had both. All the haters... blah blah blah... revs... blah blah blah... torque... you don't know what you're talking about. I would explain it... but it's too redundant...

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Oct 21, 2009 - 11:17 PM