4A-GE 20V + 6Speed + 1.8l displacement, omg, am I crazy only thining it? Advices please!! Options

[bdub215]

20V will pwn a 5SFE in a race... yeah... I had both. All the haters... blah blah blah... revs... blah blah blah... torque... you don't know what you're talking about. I would explain it... but it's too redundant...

wait a mintue whoa. a 5SFE and a blacktop is a laughable comparison. there's no way a 5s could hang with a blacktop with a 6spd on a even playing field (i.e a celica) i cant stress this enough but torque doesnt win races. power does.

[Kwanza26]

20V will pwn a 5SFE in a race... yeah... I had both. All the haters... blah blah blah... revs... blah blah blah... torque... you don't know what you're talking about. I would explain it... but it's too redundant...

wait a mintue whoa. a 5SFE and a blacktop is a laughable comparison. there's no way a 5s could hang with a blacktop with a 6spd on a even playing field (i.e a celica) i cant stress this enough but torque doesnt win races. power does.

Isn't that what I just said?... hehe...

[bdub215]

20V will pwn a 5SFE in a race... yeah... I had both. All the haters... blah blah blah... revs... blah blah blah... torque... you don't know what you're talking about. I would explain it... but it's too redundant...

wait a mintue whoa. a 5SFE and a blacktop is a laughable comparison. there's no way a 5s could hang with a blacktop with a 6spd on a even playing field (i.e a celica) i cant stress this enough but torque doesnt win races. power does.

Isn't that what I just said?... hehe...

covering your tracks....

[delusionz]

You're the first to mention racing, I agree the 165BHP over the 140BHP would have the advantage (in a straight line race,) but these are street cars and I'm talking drivability on the street.

If you're going down the track of what would beat what in a race, Why the hell would you put a 4age in when you could have a 3sgte. I wasn't "hating" on the 4age, It's a good motor, it's just not the best choice of motor for a Celica, infact its probably one of the weakest and I believe inadequate for the heavy Celica.

I'd explain it, but you wouldn't really understand blah blah blah -- Nice. You can still have a 4age and admit its weak in a Celica, just like the first guy did, doesn't make your manhood any smaller and it's not a bad engine, it's a hell good one once again for the lighter Levin/Trueno or your USDM Corolla, not the Celica. Sorry to upset anyone who owns a 4age.

[97lestyousay]

Good for the corolla unless my mom is in it with me? lol
I guess you didn't read my original post I drive a corolla
with 1st 2nd and 5th gear and reverse. I can go from 0 mph
to 65 mph in 1 gear (2nd). I routinely lug it around at 35 or 40mph
in 5th gear (yes I could still do that with my mom in the car).
It has good enough torque to be a daily driver under these conditions.

You have obviously never driven a 4age, maybe you should stop making
"yo momma is so fat" jokes and go do that.


( note to self , double any custom part price for delusionz)

[Kwanza26]

You're the first to mention racing, I agree the 165BHP over the 140BHP would have the advantage (in a straight line race,) but these are street cars and I'm talking drivability on the street.

If you're going down the track of what would beat what in a race, Why the hell would you put a 4age in when you could have a 3sgte. I wasn't "hating" on the 4age, It's a good motor, it's just not the best choice of motor for a Celica, infact its probably one of the weakest and I believe inadequate for the heavy Celica.

I'd explain it, but you wouldn't really understand blah blah blah -- Nice. You can still have a 4age and admit its weak in a Celica, just like the first guy did, doesn't make your manhood any smaller and it's not a bad engine, it's a hell good one once again for the lighter Levin/Trueno or your USDM Corolla, not the Celica. Sorry to upset anyone who owns a 4age.

Street driving is subjective. What I find hilarious is your argument comparing engine cruise speeds. Because of rod-stroke ratios, a 5S at 4000 rpms is roughly equivalent to a 4AG at 2000-2500 rpms. Of course these numbers are estimates... but because the 5S has such a long stroke versus rod length, its single revolutions places much more stress on the motor than a 4AG, with its short stroke, at much higher rpms. Neither engine struggles... they just work like how they're designed.

As far as street driving goes... SUBJECTIVE. The engine constantly moves up and down all over the powerband. The 4AG has a much larger powerband... so to say one is better than the other, when the torque difference is small (~20-25 ftlbs)... it's just biased opinion. I don't know about you... but what happens when you speed up? The engine revs. Yeah... so logically more power gained through revs is good right? The 5S may stay in the powerband longer... but you don't use power when you're cruising. You use it when you accelerate.

And no... my mandhood satisfies my wife. That's good enough for me. I'm just saying... based on my PERSONAL experience owning cars with both engines (20V powered AE86, MR2)... the 4AG rocks the socks off of the boring 5SFE any day. But hey... each to his own... just know what you're talking about. I still liked my 20V AE86 better than my daily ride (350Z)...

At least we know where your name comes from now...

Cheers!

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Oct 22, 2009 - 1:51 AM

[delusionz]

I've driven cars you'll never have in the USA, including BZ-G & BZ-R Levins, SS-I, SS-II, SS-III & GT-Four Celicas. And yes I'd rather retain a 3s-fe in an SS-I than have a 4age in it. The only one I haven't driven is a 5sfe which is the gamble I'm taking with this argument in assuming its like a 3sfe but better.

Coincidence the two of you are so ****ty at me regarding the 4age as a torqueless little motor, you both own ST's.

Take all the digs you want at me, 1600cc NA is always going to be a torqueless little motor.

EDIT: Obviously if Toyota Japan thought an A series engine would be more suitable than an S series engine, then that's what would have happened. Toyota USA thought an A series engine would be suitable in the poverty model.

This post has been edited by delusionz: Oct 22, 2009 - 5:33 AM

[Demios]

I can't see the point of soo many answers....
1) i dont have a 5S-FE, in Italy, where i am, i never saw any 5S-FE, and i don't care it
2) the point is not "is it better than 7A-FE?" "is it good?" "why 6spd, 5 is better"... the point is: can i do this? will i need something to swap the 6spd gearbox? will it work fine in a celica, or it will have some problem for fitting, and have some loss in durability?

The considerations about the 4A-GE are not that needed...cuz anyone can read something and write what he thinks...it would be better just if who write knows the engine, how it runs, wich are the best rpm to have more power...

If me, or anyone else wants a car with a 7400 rpm power peak and 8000 redline can think about it? This is a japanese car, it must scream like hell when i want to go fast...if i'd wanted a car with a lot of torque at 800 rpm i bought a 3.0 TDI Audi...

[delusionz]

Scream yes, Go fast -- Thats subjective. Fast to ST owners, Slow to GT & GT4 owners.

Actually, they don't really scream, they sound tinny.

And yes you can make a 6 speed gearbox work with custom fabrications. Haven't heard of anybody doing it but anything is possible.

But why? Alot of work, alot of time, alot of money for 165BHP?

This post has been edited by delusionz: Oct 22, 2009 - 5:55 AM

[Demios]

Yes, i read the topics, and saw the 20v in the engine bay of some member, but i didn't found anything about the 6speed gearbox, and nothing about the results of a 7A-GE 20V NA, and not turboed

i personally dont think the 6speed is anything special it would be ok in an 7age n/a form

cost wise / part wise i would just go with the 5 speed C56

C56
A 5-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars.

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.166 1.904 1.392 1.031 0.815 3.250 4.312

Applications:

Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Starlet Glanza V
Toyota AE101 Levin/Trueno (Later Years only)
Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota MR2 Spyder (US/UK/JP) (mid-engine application)


C160
A 6-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars including an optional limited slip differential. Transmission with identification code ending with 12C are LSD equipped. Code ending with 12A are non-LSD. LSD options were not available in the Wagons (ae101 corolla and ae111 carib)

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Reverse Final
3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725 3.250 4.529

Applications:

Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota AE101 Corolla Wagon (1997 onwards (BZ models only)
Toyota AE111 Carib
Toyota AE111 Corolla GT

Why do u think this? for an high rev engine its a good thing...and as u can see with shorter ratios for 1st-5th gear it works fine for fun, and a longer 6th gear than the 5th can provide a better economy race XD in italy gasoline is 1.30/40€/l that are almost 2$/l...have a tune up that provides more fun to run and higher km/l in econo it's a must...thats why swap a 3S-GE or easily turbo a 7A-FE will result in loose the car in the garage, and take a ride once a year...

This post has been edited by Demios: Oct 22, 2009 - 5:50 AM

[Demios]

Scream yes, Go fast -- Thats subjective. Fast to ST owners, Slow to GT & GT4 owners.

that's enought...cuz i will spend max 1.000€ to do everything and i'll have a 160bhp car that makes me spend surelly less everytime i take a ride than a 300+bhp tuned 3S-GE...
that's a swap for a daily...can u use a 300+bhp Celica GT-4 everyday? If u can, why don't u buy a porsche?XD

[delusionz]

My GT4 is my daily driver, I don't use 300bhp every day but I sure as hell don't have to bounce off an 8000 rev limiter just to get 160BHP.

A GT4 can drive just as tame as a regular Celica when you don't need the power, and when you ask for power, it delivers a little more than a "niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii."

Could I use 300BHP on the street? Hell yes it's handy for overtaking and it can be fun on windy twisty roads, mountain ranges, etc.

[Demios]

i cant afford that...so a 4A-GE to me its fine...so please, stop saying just a 3S-GTE or a RB28DETT, or a VQ37DE will be better...surely that will be faster...but i cant afford it...

[nik]

Yes, i read the topics, and saw the 20v in the engine bay of some member, but i didn't found anything about the 6speed gearbox, and nothing about the results of a 7A-GE 20V NA, and not turboed

i personally dont think the 6speed is anything special it would be ok in an 7age n/a form

cost wise / part wise i would just go with the 5 speed C56

C56
A 5-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars.

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final
3.166 1.904 1.392 1.031 0.815 3.250 4.312

Applications:

Toyota Celica
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Starlet Glanza V
Toyota AE101 Levin/Trueno (Later Years only)
Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota MR2 Spyder (US/UK/JP) (mid-engine application)


C160
A 6-Speed Manual Transmission for FWD cars including an optional limited slip differential. Transmission with identification code ending with 12C are LSD equipped. Code ending with 12A are non-LSD. LSD options were not available in the Wagons (ae101 corolla and ae111 carib)

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Reverse Final
3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725 3.250 4.529

Applications:

Toyota AE111 Levin/Trueno
Toyota AE101 Corolla Wagon (1997 onwards (BZ models only)
Toyota AE111 Carib
Toyota AE111 Corolla GT

Why do u think this? for an high rev engine its a good thing...and as u can see with shorter ratios for 1st-5th gear it works fine for fun, and a longer 6th gear than the 5th can provide a better economy race XD in italy gasoline is 1.30/40€/l that are almost 2$/l...have a tune up that provides more fun to run and higher km/l in econo it's a must...thats why swap a 3S-GE or easily turbo a 7A-FE will result in loose the car in the garage, and take a ride once a year...

if your on a budget just bolt the 4ag 20v to your c56 yes it works its been done
that way you dont spend any money on axels etc
yes the 6 speed probably gets better mpg but not by much

AGAIN if your on a buget
1. buy a 20v
2. install it to the 5 speed already in the car
3. wire in new harness
4. drive the car

cheapest way for a 20v in a celica

[Kiamycelica]

4age is good in a small car like a Levin, But is piss weak in the heavier Celica.

3S-GE or GTE is what you want. The poor little 4age would have to rev to 4000 just to bring up some torque to get the car rolling.

X2

Its like putting a 4 cylinder in a semi truck.

Our celicas are light as ****? about 500lbs lighter than preludes and accords. Were right there with civics.

[richee3]

A GT4 can drive just as tame as a regular Celica when you don't need the power, and when you ask for power, it delivers a little more than a "niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii."

[terbear4god4life]

4age is good in a small car like a Levin, But is piss weak in the heavier Celica.

3S-GE or GTE is what you want. The poor little 4age would have to rev to 4000 just to bring up some torque to get the car rolling.

X2

Its like putting a 4 cylinder in a semi truck.

Our celicas are light as ****? about 500lbs lighter than preludes and accords. Were right there with civics.

my celi weighs 2800=[

[SwissFerdi]

I'd really like to know how the number was obtained...but mine weighs 2409. I don't know where you guys get 2800 from.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Oct 24, 2009 - 12:24 PM

[Stambo]

i cant afford that...so a 4A-GE to me its fine...so please, stop saying just a 3S-GTE or a RB28DETT, or a VQ37DE will be better...surely that will be faster...but i cant afford it...

I feel exactly the same, Plus i'm sure you just wanna swap it and have fun doing it. Sure it's not super fast, but as long as you have fun swapping it, and learning thats all that matters. Plus you'll have ITBs

[97lestyousay]

I'd really like to know how the number was obtained...but mine weighs 2409. I don't know where you guys get 2800 from.

I don't either, this is a page from the 97 brochure.