3vz-fe V6, 5th gen....., my conversion Options

[fibrewizard]

hi guys ..... been wanting to join here for a while now....

and finally got around to doing it.....

i didnt want to step on any toes seeing as though i own a 5th gen, .....

however i thought you might be interested to hear about my conversion......

i am aware that a member on here has done a V6 conversion and alot of his details i have used for mine....
so i would just like to say thanks.......

so here we are.......

hi.....

well now that i have introduced myself.... i thought id share my build with you all.......

1991 st184sx Celica.......

bought it stock as a rock... no mods at all....

1st thing i did was rims and exhaust...


then i got thinking about a 3sgte conversion.... but that was too obvious.... i am always in my head thinking about different ways to do things and going with a generic engine swap was to plain for me......

after about 1 yr of researching and saving.... i decided to swap in a 3vzfe quad cam V6 out of a 96 vdv10 camry...

so next step was to gather all the bits id need and plan out conversion.. more research..lol......

so i got my hands on a nice front cut from a local wrecking yard.....

pulled out the motor, gearbox, wiring loom, ecu, hubs, drive shafts, instrument cluster, suspension, everything my research lead me to beleive id need......



so next step was to turn my attention to the celica..... bring it into the garage and pull out the worthless 5sfe... whaich had given me all sorts of dramas in the year i had it in there.......


so out with the old........dog of a 5sfe



so with engine and gearbox out it was time to see for myself exactly what needed to be done to get the v6 into its new home..

my research has lead me to beleive that all celica mounts would cross over to the camry engine and gearbox......

but this turned out to not be the case......
only one mount crossed over....

so thinking of research again.... i had read that the celica gearbox shares the same bolt pattern as the camry...... so off with the camry box to compare........

(seems as though i have lost these pics.... will find em)

anyhow..... bolt pattern is identicle on both camry and celica gearboxes.... so this meant that the stock celica geabox will bolt upto the v6 engine.....

and that it did... perfectly..... no hassles



now the only issue i had with swapping the gearbox's was, the clutch and the driveshaft bearing carrier.....

clutch was sorted using the camry flywheel, the celica friction plate, and the camry pressure plate..... problem solved, and works perfect.... i had a exedy h/d clutch in the celica so this would only benifit the cross over with the v6....and hold upto the new power of the v6 with no slipping.....

secondly was the driveshaft bearing carrier which had to be modified to bolt to the v6 block..... heres what we came up with.....






so this can now bolt up to the v6 block... and i can still keep celica driveshafts.... which also in turn allows me to keep all celica suspension.... as using camry gearbox would mean changing all suspension and driveshaft to either camry or custom made.....

so with all that sorted it was now time to drop the v6 and celica gearbox into the newhome of a celica engine bay



fits like a charm......

so once all was in and semi bolted down..... it was time to check out all clearences and see what had to be done to completely bolt in......

ONE engine mount.......i repeat..... ONE ENGINE MOUNT was all that was needed to bolt the V6 in to the celica.....


this is what i came up with and is just temparary as another one is being made to replace it......



so now the v6 is completely bolted into its new home it was time to add all the other new goodies......

GT4 56mm twin core alluminium radiator.....
Slotted brake rotors,





then it was reinstall gear selector cables, radiator hoses, and send it off to auto electricians to wire in the camry ecu.....



once auto electrician had wired in the ecu, instument cluster, ran new earthing points and moved battery into the hatch.... it was time to take it to the exhaust shop for custom made exhaust y-pipe merge....




then it was back home to finish off any unfinished items and prepare for start up........

with everything check and rechecked.... it was time for the initial statup......

disconnected coil so engine wouldnt start, and cranked for a little while to get the oil pressure up.......


youtube vid

after teething probs had been sorted it was time to triple check things and fir up again...... and just to hear it.... sounds awesome...


another vid

then once all was good it was time to take it for a spin..... this had been 8 months worth of work as i only got time on weekends to work on the celica...... so i had been waiting for this moment for so long it seems as though it wasnt gonna happen but here we are......BTW ... this was on saturday just gone...... so like 2 days ago......

enjoy the sound and the sights......

removed video from youtube... so put a link in for it from my image shack.... any help to embed this would be much appreciated...thanks
http://img41.imageshack.us/i/video011.mp4



[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM-TJTG8eQs&feature=related[/yt]


so this is where i am currently at with this build.....
once i have completely sorted this conversion out and it is finally driveable as a daily driver.... the next step is to finish the bodykit... of which is going to be all custom made by myself and my mate.....

enjoy all future updates and i hope that this has opened your eyes to other engine swaps possible in 5th and 6th gen celicas......any question hit me up...... only too glad to answer em for ya....



Currently this is where im up to...... and now just sorting out teething problems......

total rough cost of conversion so far is around $3500...... cost of a 3sgte front cut.....$3500..... so i set out to provide another option for celica owner/modifiers in the sense that a 3sgte is NOT the ONLY option when thinking engine swaps......

grant......... thanks for reading....

This post has been edited by fibrewizard: Sep 13, 2009 - 1:42 AM

[Euphoria]

hey mate, nice to see you on this forum too, will help alot of people out too. There a few members, most well known is snapshot and K-ESD.

[delusionz]

I like it alot, Just wondering if you have the space for 1 or 2 turbos (twin turbo, twin intake, twin exhaust would be ideal) as those engines have little torque and horsepower for the displacement.

If that thing had the torque and horsepower of a 2JZ-GE I'd be all over it and sell my 3S-GTE in an instant.

Turbos are a pain in the arse, the engines are highly strung. If I could have this same power I'd love to have a V6 NA -- Torque all the time, No lag, Less waiting for the engine to warm up.

At any rate that engine is a damn sight better than the 5S-FE that's for sure -- bet you feel the difference huh?

[njccmd2002]

wow, have you dynoed it yet? who made the mounts for ya?

what are the torque specs and HP, do you know?

Question with the tranny, which one did you use, cause the ones in our celica would suck for the v6, or so i have heard cuz of the high rpms.

Im not familiar if 5th gen has same tranny as 6th gen the c54 i believe, may be confused.

[fibrewizard]

I like it alot, Just wondering if you have the space for 1 or 2 turbos (twin turbo, twin intake, twin exhaust would be ideal) as those engines have little torque and horsepower for the displacement.

If that thing had the torque and horsepower of a 2JZ-GE I'd be all over it and sell my 3S-GTE in an instant.

Turbos are a pain in the arse, the engines are highly strung. If I could have this same power I'd love to have a V6 NA -- Torque all the time, No lag, Less waiting for the engine to warm up.

At any rate that engine is a damn sight better than the 5S-FE that's for sure -- bet you feel the difference huh?

yeah i got the room...... just alot of cutmo stuff....lol.... will post up details whn that happens not for a little whil yer.... gotts build the engine

and i have to say.... power increase is massive..... this thing trows me back into the seat, i have to hold the wheel straight so hard.... torque steer has increased heaps.... but im also ATM running no power steering either, but will be sorting that out in the near future........ pjoject is still in the works and still working on it... so plenty more updates to come.......

This post has been edited by fibrewizard: Sep 9, 2009 - 9:47 AM

[fibrewizard]

wow, have you dynoed it yet? who made the mounts for ya?

what are the torque specs and HP, do you know?

Question with the tranny, which one did you use, cause the ones in our celica would suck for the v6, or so i have heard cuz of the high rpms.

Im not familiar if 5th gen has same tranny as 6th gen the c54 i believe, may be confused.

HP... going on stock figures.... 200hp... and something like 250-260 FT/LB...not sure

am yet to dyno and i doubt stock box would handle it.. mine is just about shagged and its only done like... 200km
i am expecting a little more power then stock fiqures as i got custom y-pipe merge made... and with gearbox conversion, lightweight flywheel.........all work bar the wiring and y-pipe merge has been done by myself and mates.....
i used stock 5sfe tranny.....but swapping it over for the E153 camry tranny

This post has been edited by fibrewizard: Sep 9, 2009 - 9:52 AM

[fibrewizard]

with permission from my mate in the states......
his 3vzfe twin turbo celica.....
on its way a new twin setup and a full house build and AWD conversion

[mmmchocolate]

wow that is some nice work! very nice 5th gen! welcome to the best site in teh world!

[bdub215]

wow, have you dynoed it yet? who made the mounts for ya?

what are the torque specs and HP, do you know?

Question with the tranny, which one did you use, cause the ones in our celica would suck for the v6, or so i have heard cuz of the high rpms.

Im not familiar if 5th gen has same tranny as 6th gen the c54 i believe, may be confused.

HP... going on stock figures.... 200hp... and something like 250-260 FT/LB...not sure

am yet to dyno and i doubt stock box would handle it.. mine is just about shagged and its only done like... 200km
i am expecting a little more power then stock fiqures as i got custom y-pipe merge made... and with gearbox conversion, lightweight flywheel.........all work bar the wiring and y-pipe merge has been done by myself and mates.....
i used stock 5sfe tranny.....but swapping it over for the E153 camry tranny

why not go for the E53 instead of the E153? (E53 came paired to the 3vz camry)

[fibrewizard]

this i have ......

i have the 5speed manual trans that came with the V6... pretty sure its the e153......could be wrong though...will take pics 2moro.......

[bdub215]

E53=3vz
E153=1mz

[fibrewizard]

sweet.... thanks for the info....

i was told e153.... so thats what i went with....

thanks dude

[dabazied]

Nice work

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

welcome fellow australian/ozcelican.

any progress this weekend?

[fibrewizard]

just had to buy some bits and peices to help out in the workshop.../carport.....lol

axle stands and a garage creeper..........

now that i got the stands i can start pulling the stock gearbox out.....
hopefully have some more updates later in the week....
need to get my hands on some mounts.. to completely bolt up.... but should be able to get clutch and other stuff done.
oh and rear main oil seal while im at it.....

[keison2000]

hi guys ..... been wanting to join here for a while now....

and finally got around to doing it.....

i didnt want to step on any toes seeing as though i own a 5th gen, .....

however i thought you might be interested to hear about my conversion......

i am aware that a member on here has done a V6 conversion and alot of his details i have used for mine....
so i would just like to say thanks.......

so here we are.......

hi.....

well now that i have introduced myself.... i thought id share my build with you all.......

1991 st184sx Celica.......

bought it stock as a rock... no mods at all....

1st thing i did was rims and exhaust...


then i got thinking about a 3sgte conversion.... but that was too obvious.... i am always in my head thinking about different ways to do things and going with a generic engine swap was to plain for me......

after about 1 yr of researching and saving.... i decided to swap in a 3vzfe quad cam V6 out of a 96 vdv10 camry...

so next step was to gather all the bits id need and plan out conversion.. more research..lol......

so i got my hands on a nice front cut from a local wrecking yard.....

pulled out the motor, gearbox, wiring loom, ecu, hubs, drive shafts, instrument cluster, suspension, everything my research lead me to beleive id need......



so next step was to turn my attention to the celica..... bring it into the garage and pull out the worthless 5sfe... whaich had given me all sorts of dramas in the year i had it in there.......


so out with the old........dog of a 5sfe



so with engine and gearbox out it was time to see for myself exactly what needed to be done to get the v6 into its new home..

my research has lead me to beleive that all celica mounts would cross over to the camry engine and gearbox......

but this turned out to not be the case......
only one mount crossed over....

so thinking of research again.... i had read that the celica gearbox shares the same bolt pattern as the camry...... so off with the camry box to compare........

(seems as though i have lost these pics.... will find em)

anyhow..... bolt pattern is identicle on both camry and celica gearboxes.... so this meant that the stock celica geabox will bolt upto the v6 engine.....

and that it did... perfectly..... no hassles



now the only issue i had with swapping the gearbox's was, the clutch and the driveshaft bearing carrier.....

clutch was sorted using the camry flywheel, the celica friction plate, and the camry pressure plate..... problem solved, and works perfect.... i had a exedy h/d clutch in the celica so this would only benifit the cross over with the v6....and hold upto the new power of the v6 with no slipping.....

secondly was the driveshaft bearing carrier which had to be modified to bolt to the v6 block..... heres what we came up with.....






so this can now bolt up to the v6 block... and i can still keep celica driveshafts.... which also in turn allows me to keep all celica suspension.... as using camry gearbox would mean changing all suspension and driveshaft to either camry or custom made.....

so with all that sorted it was now time to drop the v6 and celica gearbox into the newhome of a celica engine bay



fits like a charm......

so once all was in and semi bolted down..... it was time to check out all clearences and see what had to be done to completely bolt in......

ONE engine mount.......i repeat..... ONE ENGINE MOUNT was all that was needed to bolt the V6 in to the celica.....


this is what i came up with and is just temparary as another one is being made to replace it......



so now the v6 is completely bolted into its new home it was time to add all the other new goodies......

GT4 56mm twin core alluminium radiator.....
Slotted brake rotors,





then it was reinstall gear selector cables, radiator hoses, and send it off to auto electricians to wire in the camry ecu.....



once auto electrician had wired in the ecu, instument cluster, ran new earthing points and moved battery into the hatch.... it was time to take it to the exhaust shop for custom made exhaust y-pipe merge....




then it was back home to finish off any unfinished items and prepare for start up........

with everything check and rechecked.... it was time for the initial statup......

disconnected coil so engine wouldnt start, and cranked for a little while to get the oil pressure up.......


youtube vid

after teething probs had been sorted it was time to triple check things and fir up again...... and just to hear it.... sounds awesome...


another vid

then once all was good it was time to take it for a spin..... this had been 8 months worth of work as i only got time on weekends to work on the celica...... so i had been waiting for this moment for so long it seems as though it wasnt gonna happen but here we are......BTW ... this was on saturday just gone...... so like 2 days ago......

enjoy the sound and the sights......

removed video from youtube... so put a link in for it from my image shack.... any help to embed this would be much appreciated...thanks
http://img41.imageshack.us/i/video011.mp4



[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM-TJTG8eQs&feature=related[/yt]


so this is where i am currently at with this build.....
once i have completely sorted this conversion out and it is finally driveable as a daily driver.... the next step is to finish the bodykit... of which is going to be all custom made by myself and my mate.....

enjoy all future updates and i hope that this has opened your eyes to other engine swaps possible in 5th and 6th gen celicas......any question hit me up...... only too glad to answer em for ya....



Currently this is where im up to...... and now just sorting out teething problems......

total rough cost of conversion so far is around $3500...... cost of a 3sgte front cut.....$3500..... so i set out to provide another option for celica owner/modifiers in the sense that a 3sgte is NOT the ONLY option when thinking engine swaps......

grant......... thanks for reading....

[fibrewizard]

ok.....

well starting gearbox conversion this week.........

stock box didnt last as long as id hoped..lol.... but nevermind..

chang will be for the better as i wont have to baby it around anymore....
so i can finally open it up and get it dyno'd to dee exactly how much HP i got and to see if stock 2.2ltr fuel pump is up to the task......

keep tuned.... more updates to come.....

[fibrewizard]

this i have ......

i have the 5speed manual trans that came with the V6... pretty sure its the e153......could be wrong though...will take pics 2moro.......

pffftttt ....i was wrong..... i got the e53 V6 trans...... duh...lol

anyhow... swap isnt that far away now just need to source one more part and is 185 gt4 gear shifter cables.....anybody got any...

so items on hand...

1xgt4 top passenger side tranny mount
1xgt4 rear tranny mount
1xgt4 front-back crossmember
1xgt4 shifter cable bracket

will be using camry inner shafts and gt4 outer shafts.... i have been informed that the gt4 shafts will go into my 184 hubs... so no need to change anything there....TF

will most definately post up pics while conversion is going ahead... so i can keep you all updated.....

V6 FTW....lol

[fibrewizard]

wow, have you dynoed it yet? who made the mounts for ya?

what are the torque specs and HP, do you know?

Question with the tranny, which one did you use, cause the ones in our celica would suck for the v6, or so i have heard cuz of the high rpms.

Im not familiar if 5th gen has same tranny as 6th gen the c54 i believe, may be confused.

taken from wikipedia........

1994+ have 200 hp (149 kW) at 5800 rpm and 204 ft·lbf (277 N·m) at 4600 rpm. There is no mechanical difference in the engine. In an embarrassing move, Toyota inadvertently created an engine competing with the more performance oriented 7M-GE (200 hp) and 2JZ-GE (225 hp) installed in sportier, more luxurious cars of the time. Because of this; the stock ignition timing and fueling was noticibly detuned. The power spread of the 3VZ-FE is wide, having 100% torque between 2500–4600 rpm, with power trailing off by 6000 rpm. Stock redline is 6600 rpm, and the ECU's fuel/ignition cut is 7200 rpm.

Though harder to find in good used condition in North America (unless imported), the 3VZ-FE is a fairly common V6 in most parts of the world, after having a good lifespan in popular models. They are cheap, simple, have few problems, and have become a semi-popular subject for engine swaps (particularly into the mid-engine MR2).

The 3VZ-FE has a larger forged steel crankshaft and large cast rods. They can handle double the stock power output, although forged pistons & rods are recommended. A few nitrous and turbocharged examples match or exceed 450hp (336kW) on both the stock engine and engine management with a piggyback chip controlling fuel & ignition.


Not bad....ey....new ecu is next i guess...lmao

[bdub215]

wow, have you dynoed it yet? who made the mounts for ya?

what are the torque specs and HP, do you know?

Question with the tranny, which one did you use, cause the ones in our celica would suck for the v6, or so i have heard cuz of the high rpms.

Im not familiar if 5th gen has same tranny as 6th gen the c54 i believe, may be confused.

taken from wikipedia........

1994+ have 200 hp (149 kW) at 5800 rpm and 204 ft·lbf (277 N·m) at 4600 rpm. There is no mechanical difference in the engine. In an embarrassing move, Toyota inadvertently created an engine competing with the more performance oriented 7M-GE (200 hp) and 2JZ-GE (225 hp) installed in sportier, more luxurious cars of the time. Because of this; the stock ignition timing and fueling was noticibly detuned. The power spread of the 3VZ-FE is wide, having 100% torque between 2500–4600 rpm, with power trailing off by 6000 rpm. Stock redline is 6600 rpm, and the ECU's fuel/ignition cut is 7200 rpm.

Though harder to find in good used condition in North America (unless imported), the 3VZ-FE is a fairly common V6 in most parts of the world, after having a good lifespan in popular models. They are cheap, simple, have few problems, and have become a semi-popular subject for engine swaps (particularly into the mid-engine MR2).

The 3VZ-FE has a larger forged steel crankshaft and large cast rods. They can handle double the stock power output, although forged pistons & rods are recommended. A few nitrous and turbocharged examples match or exceed 450hp (336kW) on both the stock engine and engine management with a piggyback chip controlling fuel & ignition.


Not bad....ey....new ecu is next i guess...lmao

piece of advice: since you have the late model 3vz i would just double check the timing. the 185hp are around 7degrees btdc and the 200hp should be 14-17degrees btdc. if thats good then there's no reason no adjust the afm two clicks lean (which would give the 185hp 3vz's 200hp with the timing advance.)