3SGTE swap, 3rd Gen VS. 4th Gen Options

[str8thugginit4ya]

What's up guys,


I need some enlightenment. I've done some research and I know that the 4th Gen 3SGTE fits into our Celica's (thanks to the stickies) , but I would like to know what's the difference with putting in the 4th gen 3SGTE rather than the 3rd Gen. Are there any differences when it comes to transmission type, engine mounts, computer re-wiring or anything like that. Would there need to be any custom work done? Now, I know that the 4th gen 3SGTE comes with an AWD transmission, but does it also come with a FWD tranny, and/or would the 3rd gen FWD transmission work on that engine? Please let me know all the details you can, may be getting a good deal on a 4th gen 3SGTE from a Caldina (ST215).



-Thanks, Ryan

[easternpiro1]

What's up guys,


I need some enlightenment. I've done some research and I know that the 4th Gen 3SGTE fits into our Celica's (thanks to the stickies) , but I would like to know what's the difference with putting in the 4th gen 3SGTE rather than the 3rd Gen. Are there any differences when it comes to transmission type, engine mounts, computer re-wiring or anything like that. Would there need to be any custom work done? Now, I know that the 4th gen 3SGTE comes with an AWD transmission, but does it also come with a FWD tranny, and/or would the 3rd gen FWD transmission work on that engine? Please let me know all the details you can, may be getting a good deal on a 4th gen 3SGTE from a Caldina (ST215).

-Thanks, Ryan

Hiya ryan, AHHH the 3rd gen vs 4th gen debate! well im sure you know the differences physically with the engine so i wont bother u with that. but to answer your questions asked, there are no other differences tranny and installation wise heres why:

-both gens come awd, so you will wind up having to swap in a e153 tranny (mr2 or v6 camry) or use the cheaper version s54(camry/celica gt tranny)

-no custom work would need to be done that wouldnt normally be done (mounts if you have an st etc.)

Basically the process of putting the engines in are exactly the same. the motors are basically the same with the major exception that the 4th gen has no distributor and is coil on plug, and comes with the turbo and manifold one piece both intake manifolds have the same bolt pattern as well as exhaust manifolds and the blocks are identical.

the biggest difference IMO is availability of parts comparitavely (ex: valve cover gasket not readily available for 4th gen since it is different)

and the fact that the 4th gen is from years 98-2003 so mileage may be less. im biased, but i would go after the 4th gen. check out jdm engine depot in jersey, they have some in stock

and FYI: here is a list of interchangeable parts in case you decide to go for a 4th gen. (I 4get who posted this here)

3SGTE engine. Here's are some parts that are bolt on :

-Adjustable cam gear (AEM, Fidanza, HKS, OBX, ATS). Any cam gear kit for 3SGTE will fit.

-XS Power SSAC ST205 manifold/downpipe used with a ST205 turbo will convert the one-piece ST215 manifold/turbo to a nicely upgradeable ST205 Ct20b turbo kit. You can add to this a t3/t4 adaptor and you will be able to use a t3/t4 turbo (like I did on my ST215 swap)

-Pistons, rods, crankshaft are all the same for ST205 and ST215

-The injectors are the same as the ST205 one, so, if there is a 3rd gen fuel system available, it will fit the ST215 too.

-The exhaust camshaft is the same as the ST205 one. So an HKS 264/272 exhaust camshaft will bolt on. For the intake, I don't know if the HKS one would fit. Next year, when money will allow it, I'll buy a HKS264/264 camshaft kit and I'll know if the intake camshaft fit or not.

-You can remove the top ATA intercooler and add a FMIC as easy as any other 3SGTE.

The things that need heavy custom work is the ECU/wiring harness, ignition component (because of coil-on-plug). In my case, I used a Megasquirt II ECU with Ford EDIS wastespark ignition system and everything works nicely.

The other aftermarket parts like BOV, wastegate, air intake, boost controller etc, can be fitted easily like on any other 3SGTE engine.

The alternator can be replaced with one from any 5SFE or 3SGTE, along with the a/c compressor and the p/s pump (though the 4th gen p/s pump uses an electronic sending unit for the idle-up).

Bear in mind that the 4th gen injectors are also high-impedance, and no resistor pack is used.
-pistons
-connecting rods
-crankshaft
-exhaust camshaft

-cam gears
-timing belt
-water pump
-Intake manifold (bolt pattern are the same)
-fuel rail and injectors from ST215 are 540cc and top feed, so they have the same output rating as gen3, but they are top feed instead of side-feed(gen3)
-exhaust manifold (same bolt pattern)(but the 4th gen exhaust manifold is casted with the turbine housing)
-MAT sensor (manifold air temp)
-MAP sensor
-crank pulley
-oil pans
-oil pickup system
-knock sensor
-ac compressor
-alternator (5sfe as well)

Note: (Try using NGK bkr7e spark plugs) rare, but good ones

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Feb 24, 2010 - 8:21 PM

[easternpiro1]

damn! i forgot to mention that the caldina AWD tranny is automatic, so if you plan on using the stock computer re-wiring will be necessary, the good dr tweak (whom did my 1st swap) is great at that wiring stuff and could answer questions u have hes also 2 states over from ya (s.c.)

[str8thugginit4ya]

damn! i forgot to mention that the caldina AWD tranny is automatic, so if you plan on using the stock computer re-wiring will be necessary, the good dr tweak (whom did my 1st swap) is great at that wiring stuff and could answer questions u have hes also 2 states over from ya (s.c.)

Wow, you and Mstoochn really got this thing down to the T. I think I got all of the info I needed (and maybe more). If I have any more questions I'll be sure to give you guys a shout.


-Thanks for everything, Ryan

[easternpiro1]

no problem man... i finally learned somethin on here lmao! pressure2,lagos,plyr,drtweak,pittfirefighter,pipes,jim,pitce
lica and a BUNCH of others i didnt name are great referrence points! just pay attention to whatever they post and it'll stick in a while lol

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Feb 25, 2010 - 11:34 AM

[samir0189]

damn! i forgot to mention that the caldina AWD tranny is automatic, so if you plan on using the stock computer re-wiring will be necessary, the good dr tweak (whom did my 1st swap) is great at that wiring stuff and could answer questions u have hes also 2 states over from ya (s.c.)

hmmm so you are saying, that the a/t ECU can be used? the harness just needs to be rewired for m/t use?????

[SlvrCelica09]

i think this should have been posted in the forced induction topic

[str8thugginit4ya]

i think this should have been posted in the forced induction topic

Sorry if I did post this in the wrong section, I just thought with it being about just the 3SGTE engines it would be in the "engines" section. If it is in the wrong section, then mods, please move to the correct one please!


-Ryan

[easternpiro1]

damn! i forgot to mention that the caldina AWD tranny is automatic, so if you plan on using the stock computer re-wiring will be necessary, the good dr tweak (whom did my 1st swap) is great at that wiring stuff and could answer questions u have hes also 2 states over from ya (s.c.)

hmmm so you are saying, that the a/t ECU can be used? the harness just needs to be rewired for m/t use?????

YUP!! i can be used, just has to be wired some sort o way... im not sure exactly how... tweak did it.

[Mstoochn]

your welcome

i hope my pm answered all ur questions.