Going 7A-FE to 3S-GE BEAMS?, Any major differences from the 5S-FE - 3S-GE BEAMS swap? Options

[AnaXyd]

Hi!

I am really tired of the 7A-FE engine now. The Celica look like a sportscar, but perform like a... yeah, it perform badly. I want to keep the cocky guys behind me, when they try to race against me, not in front.

And the 7A-FE have been rolling nearly 200.000km, and very soon I need to change timing belt, water and oil pumps, clutch and so on. So the thought "swap engine" came by.

Since I live in Norway, its really strict laws of swapping engines. But I am 99% sure that I can swap into the 3S-GE legally, without changing all the suspension, brakes and so on.

So, we have the engine, but which generation? Then the other thought "BEAMS" came by. Its the same engine code, but a lot better.(right? )

VVT-i, 200horsepower, sexy look and so on


BUT the big question is: Will this be simple, or not? I think I am going to buy a RHD frontcut, but my car is LHD, so I think it will be some playing with the harness.

Is there anyone that have done this swap? I cant find any with the search, so this is maybe a really rare swap.

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Apr 29, 2010 - 4:46 PM

[hurley97]

I just did a really quick search and found a ton of info and people who did the redtop Beams swap.

Mine and Dustin's Beams swapped 94 GT

Norberto's Beams swap into his 97 GT Vert

Erahman85's Beams swap into a 99 GT

2bcelica's Beams swap into a 98 GT

Turnip's Beams swap into a 94 GT

Outsider's Beams swap into a 94 GT-S, and latest update thread

Puretone's Beams swap into a 5th gen vert

Tweak's Beams swap into a 5th gen vert


And there are more than that with other Beams info, those are pretty much just the swap threads I found. The only difference between all those people and you is that you are starting out with a 7AFE, all those people removed a 5SFE. But as long as your motor set or clip comes with all the mounts and the power steering pump everything should be about the same. The wiring may or may not be slightly different, I'm not sure about that part.

[AnaXyd]

Thank you for all this info. I really appreciate it. I have been through some of them, but I didnt find anyone with the 7A-FE - 3S-GE swap.

If I buy a front clip, I think all of the parts should be there. But I got some simple questions:

- Do I need to change the front hubs? (to fit the axles from the beams trans)
^{- I have seen some discussions regarding the gauge cluster. Some threads says that you need to change into the BEAMS one to get all correct. But is this really needed?} - Got this confirmed. Need to change the RPM gauge from BEAMS gauge cluster to mine.


And at last, if you folks are kind, do you have any tips to me?


AND: Will you suggest to just swap into the 3S-GE non beams, instead?

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Apr 26, 2010 - 6:45 AM

[hurley97]

The ST and GT have the same hubs so Beams axles will fit in your hubs just fine. Only difference is that everyone with a GT can also use their original GT axles as well as the Beams axles, you can't do that with your ST axles.

Changing the gauge cluster over is the easy way to do it but its not necessary. You can buy a tach adapter like me and Dustin did with our Beams. We used one from Dakota Digital.

Personally I wouldn't think its worth all the work of swapping for a non-Beams when you can get the Beams for not much more, but I guess it really depends on your budget. If you can swing the extra money for the Beams then you should do it.

[AnaXyd]

Thank you for great reply.

Then the axle problem is solved. I am always scared if they NOT fit!


Regarding the harness, WILL this be the same (bridging pin 4 and 17 on EA1, and removing black wire on white interior plug slot #18 and repin it into dark grey plug slot #17) plus extending the harness to make it go into the hole on the passenger side.

This is done to a 5S-FE - 3S-GE BEAMS swap. Will it be different with a 7A-FE swap?

[AnaXyd]

I really need this approved guys!

Will the harness work be the same on my ST as the GT?


Then I can start my process in this swap! (Just need to clearify that I can get this street legal in Norway, then its ON)

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: Apr 29, 2010 - 7:20 AM

[AnaXyd]

Okay, have checked around a bit, and it looks like the only difference between swapping a BEAMS into a 7A-FE vs 5S-FE is the motor mounts. To be more specific, I need to drill up some holes in the chassis, but thats not a really big deal.

If this sounds right, I am very close to buying a BEAMS engine!

But got a final question of the exhaust system. Is this bolt on with my original system, or do I need to fabricate some custom pipes etc?



Answers is appreciated!

[Rusty]

yup you got the mounts spot on, yes they need to be changed

the exhaust will be different, even the beams swap into a 5S GT, they have to change the piping. at that point why not go for an aftermarket/custom exhaust, since the 7A exhaust system is properly very small.

one last thing try get one that has everything airbox etc, post up links on ones your thinking of buying just to be sure you get everything.

[AnaXyd]

Thank you for reply, Rusty!

Okay, then I will surely go for aftermarked exhaust piping, when we are in the flow!

I have found a front-clip, that seems to have everything that I'll need. I dont want to make chances to NOT get every single bolt that I need.

Is there something else that I need? I was thinking of changing the timing belt and the water and oil pump when I got the engine out.

[Rusty]

yes its proberly a good ida to do it. Should be done either 10years or 100,000kms which ever come first (Im pretty sure those numbers are right)

[AnaXyd]

Yeah, I should do it when I got the possibility. It cant be so expensive to do it myself, so why not!

--

And there, I think my dream jus got blown... After talking to Toyota Norway.

My plan was to get this swap street legal here in Norway, but I was now told by a technican in Toyota that it would be too much headache. He said that I needed to change the brakes at the front, some stiffness bars in the engine bay(?), and get it emission legal. Toyota Norway says that I need to rebuild my car to the exact same as the car I am getting the engine from.

That sucked, I really wanted to become the first in Norway to do this swap....

[zavnet]

Yeah, I should do it when I got the possibility. It cant be so expensive to do it myself, so why not!

--

And there, I think my dream jus got blown... After talking to Toyota Norway.

My plan was to get this swap street legal here in Norway, but I was now told by a technician in Toyota that it would be too much headache. He said that I needed to change the brakes at the front, some stiffness bars in the engine bay(?), and get it emission legal. Toyota Norway says that I need to rebuild my car to the exact same as the car I am getting the engine from.

That sucked, I really wanted to become the first in Norway to do this swap....

didn't want to kill your dreams but the truth with the 7afe swap is that its a lot of headache..... BUT! if u wanna do it please have patience u will need it..... i found that out the hard way with mine .. (nb.. i use mine to go to work .. and that was a drag not having it for the last 2 months) .... the sub frames in the st models are different from the gt. when i got the mounts for the regular 3sge (thats the swap that i did not the beams but they are similar) i realize that i had to use back my mounts and the mechanic had to fabricate the brackets to fit. only the right side mount i used and even then u have to bore the holes for that. then also after mounting the engine with the other mounts i realize that the engine is 1" and a half over to the left hence the original axle that i bought for the 3sge was short on the right side and now i had to cut the original 7afe axle and weld it for it to fit. so right now i am currently searching for a longer axle or just to take my car to another mechanic and let then figure out how to mount the engine properly oh and i have the original 7afe axle (left side)in it but other than that it drives well. have other stuff to tell u that i went through but i have to go pick up the wife so later.

[Rusty]

Maybe if you got a 1/2 cut you'd get the brakes etc, but that'll cost a bit more

Hmm other options: You could look for an imported SS series? or maybe swap the beams into a EDM GT (since they have similar brakes bracing etc)

This post has been edited by Rusty: May 4, 2010 - 1:24 AM

[AnaXyd]

Yeah, I should do it when I got the possibility. It cant be so expensive to do it myself, so why not!

--

And there, I think my dream jus got blown... After talking to Toyota Norway.

My plan was to get this swap street legal here in Norway, but I was now told by a technician in Toyota that it would be too much headache. He said that I needed to change the brakes at the front, some stiffness bars in the engine bay(?), and get it emission legal. Toyota Norway says that I need to rebuild my car to the exact same as the car I am getting the engine from.

That sucked, I really wanted to become the first in Norway to do this swap....

didn't want to kill your dreams but the truth with the 7afe swap is that its a lot of headache..... BUT! if u wanna do it please have patience u will need it..... i found that out the hard way with mine .. (nb.. i use mine to go to work .. and that was a drag not having it for the last 2 months) .... the sub frames in the st models are different from the gt. when i got the mounts for the regular 3sge (thats the swap that i did not the beams but they are similar) i realize that i had to use back my mounts and the mechanic had to fabricate the brackets to fit. only the right side mount i used and even then u have to bore the holes for that. then also after mounting the engine with the other mounts i realize that the engine is 1" and a half over to the left hence the original axle that i bought for the 3sge was short on the right side and now i had to cut the original 7afe axle and weld it for it to fit. so right now i am currently searching for a longer axle or just to take my car to another mechanic and let then figure out how to mount the engine properly oh and i have the original 7afe axle (left side)in it but other than that it drives well. have other stuff to tell u that i went through but i have to go pick up the wife so later.

Oh, that looks like a lot of problems! Especially the axle problem, which I dont want to risk to not fit. But are you done with the swap now? Everything is solved?

Maybe if you got a 1/2 cut you'd get the brakes etc, but that'll cost a bit more

Hmm other options: You could look for an imported SS series? or maybe swap the beams into a EDM GT (since they have similar brakes bracing etc)

Yeah, that would be really expensive i think..

Are there imported BEAMS engines, like LHD? And I really dont want to change the car, since I have done a LOT of fabricating and work on it. Especially love! But there may be a chance to change into the 3S-GE non-beams, without headache? If I find anything, though.

This was so sad, I was SO close buying that clip!

This post has been edited by AnaXyd: May 4, 2010 - 2:07 AM

[Rusty]

nope they (BEAMS) only came out RHD from Japan..

in that case maybe best look for a 1/2 cut BEAMS for your swap

[AnaXyd]

Damn, if they were LHD too, it would have been alot easier! But a halfcut is rare, and it will still be a headache to get it in, like zavnet says.

But, is the 3S-GE non-beams so much worse than the BEAMS? It has 30hp less or something, and I can live with that!

[zavnet]

Damn, if they were LHD too, it would have been alot easier! But a halfcut is rare, and it will still be a headache to get it in, like zavnet says.

But, is the 3S-GE non-beams so much worse than the BEAMS? It has 30hp less or something, and I can live with that!

the 3sge non beams is 190hp i think and its the same setup re engine mounts. yes my swap is complete now however i am still driving around with a cut and welded axle i am still searching for a longer one that i can take to a machine shop and cut to the correct length and have them put back in the splines.

as for our left hand drive celicas be sure to get a longer gas pedal cable to make the "bend" properly so that u can have smooth acceleration. my car is still automatic but i went through serious headache with firstly the tranni that i got . it didn't carry a speed sensor and uses ABS so i had to take it back to the dealer that i got it from and find one thats electronical as well and uses a speed sensor hence i didn't have to trouble my dash. but the one i got was total garbage the thing kept stalling the car in reverse and drive because the transmission it self had a fault ... after thinking that it was the elctrician who wired my car wrong and going back and forth (to elctrician and transmission man) taking out valve body and all that..didn't work so then we decided to just get rid of it and buy another one similar and...... walla it worked! no more problems just that the kick down cable was short had to extend that as well. have a few upgrades to drop in now thats sitting around at home such as MSD igniter and hks limiter...350 psi walbro fuel pump and it needs to be piped out properly ....and speaking about piped out u will need to get the exhaust that connects immediately after the exhaust manifold thats like a v shape .. i had to do some cutting and welding there. yup lots of work i almost thought to myself at one point that this celica was definitely not made to have the 3sge engine after nearly giving up.

[AnaXyd]

That looks like a LOT of more trouble that the GT guys got. For them, it looks like its really close to bolt on. Is the ST so different? I thought it was the motor mount you'd have to drill in the chassis, and the crossmember that was different.

[zavnet]

That looks like a LOT of more trouble that the GT guys got. For them, it looks like its really close to bolt on. Is the ST so different? I thought it was the motor mount you'd have to drill in the chassis, and the crossmember that was different.

ya they make it look so easy.. and oh i have the disk brakes to put in at the back... i really hate toyota for making the St version and worse myself for buying it!

[AnaXyd]

Yeah, but you are sure that your technicans dont have taken a "longer" road on swapping? Maybe it IS easy, but they did misunderstand?

Can someone other on 6gc.net please confirm that the swap is this headache or not?

I would be pleased to know what I am diving into.